K
kage_ar
Guest
Pssst - it is against the rules for Parishes to use recorded music during Mass, so, raising the money for small parishes to pay an organist would be the licit idea
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B
benedictgal
Guest
You made some excellent points!
For a couple of years, my dad’s parish did not have an organist for every Mass. Our cantor, a music teacher by profession, sang acapella and she got everyone else to sing with her.
We make due with what we have. But, recorded music is not an option for the Mass.
H
hosea
Guest
I am seeking out advice from a distributor for OCP on getting permission to do this. Everyone, please bear in mind I am just a musician who has learned how to enhance the music I love so much; His music. The song writers are compensated by the publishers of the hymnals. The hope of those talented people, I believe, is to have their songs published in the hymnals that churches buy for their congregations; not to have them recorded and played on the hit parade. If we provide settings that show the song almost exactly as the composer intended and in a beautiful way, the people are lifted up and perhaps it will cause more people to join the parish thus increasing the need for more hymnals which generates more royalties for the songwriters than any midi file I create to show off their endevors.
I thank you all for pointing out my ilicit and immoral faults. I pray you are blessed in your musical endeavors beyond your wildest dreams.
I meant no harm to anyone.
peace,
h
I thank you all for pointing out my ilicit and immoral faults. I pray you are blessed in your musical endeavors beyond your wildest dreams.
I meant no harm to anyone.
peace,
h
B
benedictgal
Guest
Hosea, what I do not understand is that even though you have been told that the authoritative documents of the Church specifically state that recorded music is not allowed, you insist on continuing this ilicit practice. This is not serving the Liturgy at all. The norms, rules and rubrics are there for a reason. They are not there to be ignored.
K
kage_ar
Guest
It is musicians who know these things, heck, that is how I know these things - my family is in the music business.
H
hosea
Guest
I’ve been doing ‘covers’ for 40 years even back in the disco days in the night clubs. I just never thought about that side of it until now. Hopefully, something good will come of this. Otherwise I will inform the person I am in touch with and they will have to find another way.
The technology is so tempting. The songs are quite beautiful with the amazing samples that are out there. I don’t do it but there is even a way to put a piece of sheet music on your scanner and scan it right into Sonar and manipulate the notes. It will make me very sad if I have to stop. But what the heck. I’ll just have to use my Taylors and go back to the simple songs.
peace
A
agapewolf
Guest
For the 3rd time, the songwriters are also compensated when someone records their music and distributes it to a wider audience. You can’t rationalize one wrongdoing because it brings them more royalties another way. They should be paid for their song, however it is used.
K
kage_ar
Guest
Sin is always tempting or no one would do it
Inform the person you are in touch with that you will work to help them raise money to hire an organist. Around here, the going rate is $25 per mass. So, if you could have a fund raiser and raise $1500, you could pay for over a year’s worth of music for this parish!
Point them to songs that are in the public domain and VIOLA! You can be a hero.
C
cosfini05
Guest
Hosea,
I feel for you man, b/c from what I can tell, you want to do something to help others. So I commend you for wanting to do this.
With that being said, our brothers and sisters are correct in that musical recordings of any kind are prohibited in the use of liturgy. On the one hand, I never cared much for backup recordings of any kind for performance, not just in a sacred setting, but also in a secular setting. I’ve been doing both secular and sacred music for a long time (not nearly as much as others, but I do have 18 years under my belt). There are certain venues in the secular wolrd that would axe me if I would use a backup recording for a vocalist. My employees, and even my audience would wonder why I wouldn’t use my instrumentalists and musicians to play the piece and would probably question my musical integrity and ability to lead and perform.
I find that when it comes to liturgy, simplicty is important. I know there are parishes that have amazing choirs, instrumentalists, and vocalists, etc., but I’ve found that even in some of the poorer parishes where I help with liturgical music (these parishes have no song sheets, hymnals, instruments, etc.), if and when I can, I will bring a keyboard or a guitar for accompaniment. However, alot of times, particularly in the Spanish-speaking parishes, I take out my missal, and use the Meinrad tones to chant out the parts for the mass without any type of accompaniment. What I find is that many times, less is truly more. And the people really respond.
I think alot of times, as liturgical musicians, we find out many things through trial and error, and because there is a general lack of knowledge as to what is appropriate musically for mass. I am very fortunate to belong to a Diocese where our Bishop is both knowledgeable about liturgy and is very pastoral. I work with music directors who are striving to remain true to the Church’s teachings on sacred music, and many who actually can decipher the documents so that I can understand it. We have priests who are committed to liturgical renewal and who are willing to communicate with us musical directors on how to approach the liturgy. In my parish, we are striving for the ideal, but it’s taking time, lots of energy, and lots of patience in teaching why music is so important for liturgy that it needs to be done correctly, and done well, according to the capacities of the parish, and striving for the ideal.
Many that post on these forums might already know of the Meinrad tones, but just in case, here is a link:
saintmeinrad.edu/monastery_liturgicalmusic.aspx
There are many resources on their website and it’s actually, surprisingly simple to follow. You can set the tones to any language. This would be a good resource to send to other poor parishes around the world.
I feel for you man, b/c from what I can tell, you want to do something to help others. So I commend you for wanting to do this.
With that being said, our brothers and sisters are correct in that musical recordings of any kind are prohibited in the use of liturgy. On the one hand, I never cared much for backup recordings of any kind for performance, not just in a sacred setting, but also in a secular setting. I’ve been doing both secular and sacred music for a long time (not nearly as much as others, but I do have 18 years under my belt). There are certain venues in the secular wolrd that would axe me if I would use a backup recording for a vocalist. My employees, and even my audience would wonder why I wouldn’t use my instrumentalists and musicians to play the piece and would probably question my musical integrity and ability to lead and perform.
I find that when it comes to liturgy, simplicty is important. I know there are parishes that have amazing choirs, instrumentalists, and vocalists, etc., but I’ve found that even in some of the poorer parishes where I help with liturgical music (these parishes have no song sheets, hymnals, instruments, etc.), if and when I can, I will bring a keyboard or a guitar for accompaniment. However, alot of times, particularly in the Spanish-speaking parishes, I take out my missal, and use the Meinrad tones to chant out the parts for the mass without any type of accompaniment. What I find is that many times, less is truly more. And the people really respond.
I think alot of times, as liturgical musicians, we find out many things through trial and error, and because there is a general lack of knowledge as to what is appropriate musically for mass. I am very fortunate to belong to a Diocese where our Bishop is both knowledgeable about liturgy and is very pastoral. I work with music directors who are striving to remain true to the Church’s teachings on sacred music, and many who actually can decipher the documents so that I can understand it. We have priests who are committed to liturgical renewal and who are willing to communicate with us musical directors on how to approach the liturgy. In my parish, we are striving for the ideal, but it’s taking time, lots of energy, and lots of patience in teaching why music is so important for liturgy that it needs to be done correctly, and done well, according to the capacities of the parish, and striving for the ideal.
Many that post on these forums might already know of the Meinrad tones, but just in case, here is a link:
saintmeinrad.edu/monastery_liturgicalmusic.aspx
There are many resources on their website and it’s actually, surprisingly simple to follow. You can set the tones to any language. This would be a good resource to send to other poor parishes around the world.
H
hosea
Guest
Wonderful news. (I hesitate starting out that way. The last time I said that I got run over by a bunch of busses…
)Fortunately, and by God’s blessings, your math is wrong. I have been in touch with the licensing person at OCP and he told me that the 25 dollars is a minimum order. In other words my 200 song library will only cost me 54.60. So I am making my list to give to them and shortly I will be licensed to record and use the backing tracks legally and give them to my sister parish (I will purchase a license for them too).
Thank you all for your frank (if hurtful) remarks. Being the good Catholics I know you all are I’ll bet it was hard for you to call me the names you did but I deserved every name. “Ignorance of the law” as they say.
Peace,
h
B
benedictgal
Guest
However, that does not mean that you can use recorded music for the Liturgy. Thus, you are not completely in the clear on that one.Wonderful news. (I hesitate starting out that way. The last time I said that I got run over by a bunch of busses…
Fortunately, and by God’s blessings, your math is wrong. I have been in touch with the licensing person at OCP and he told me that the 25 dollars is a minimum order. In other words my 200 song library will only cost me 54.60. So I am making my list to give to them and shortly I will be licensed to record and use the backing tracks legally and give them to my sister parish (I will purchase a license for them too).
Thank you all for your frank (if hurtful) remarks. Being the good Catholics I know you all are I’ll bet it was hard for you to call me the names you did but I deserved every name. “Ignorance of the law” as they say.
Peace,
h
A
agapewolf
Guest
Hosea, I never called you a name. NEVER, nor do I remember anyone else calling you a name.Wonderful news. (I hesitate starting out that way. The last time I said that I got run over by a bunch of busses…
Fortunately, and by God’s blessings, your math is wrong. I have been in touch with the licensing person at OCP and he told me that the 25 dollars is a minimum order. In other words my 200 song library will only cost me 54.60. So I am making my list to give to them and shortly I will be licensed to record and use the backing tracks legally and give them to my sister parish (I will purchase a license for them too).
Thank you all for your frank (if hurtful) remarks. Being the good Catholics I know you all are I’ll bet it was hard for you to call me the names you did but I deserved every name. “Ignorance of the law” as they say.
Peace,
h
Your false humility here : “Being the good Catholics I know you all are I’ll bet it was hard for you to call me the names you did but I deserved every name”
is not called for.
J
jmcrae
Guest
I agree. No one was doing any kind of name-calling. Everyone was anxious to keep him out of trouble (like, jail, etc.) - not give him trouble.
E
Erin_Anne
Guest
Hosea,
No one called you any names. No one. Why would we? The discussion was about the method in which you want to distribute the music, Canon Law, and the consequences of doing it in the way you had originally planned. We were urging you to not do something that could have gotten you into a lot of legal trouble. That’s all. It was nothing more than that…
E.A.
No one called you any names. No one. Why would we? The discussion was about the method in which you want to distribute the music, Canon Law, and the consequences of doing it in the way you had originally planned. We were urging you to not do something that could have gotten you into a lot of legal trouble. That’s all. It was nothing more than that…
E.A.
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