SSPX, New Protestants

[fultonsheen]

Can anyone tell me where to find discussion on the new protestantism? I’m referring to the SSPX. I am a manager at a Catholic bookstore, and over the years I have found that I have to argue more frequently with SSPX members than with modernist or cafeteria catholics. It’s always the same, they come in very knowledgeable, they support long standing devotions, they love traditional or dignified liturgy, and then we begin to talk about authority. They claim Rome has overstepped its bounds and they usually refer to some book published by TAN to maintain there is some major conspiracy afoot by the masons. They claim the SSPX is not in schism, nor are those who frequent their Masses. They also claim Rome has either not decided on the appropriateness of attending SSPX churches, or that Rome has said you surely can. The facts are Levebre started an experimental community under the jurisdiction of a local bishop. He began to do things without permission like ordaining seminarians. Finally, in 1988 he illicitly ordained four bishops and Rome declared him in schism. Now is it not true, even if the masses at SSPX churches are valid, but not licit, that all confessions given at these churches are invalid? Do you not also think that it is sinful to knowingly participate at SSPX masses, even if you only have a dozen or so “bland” novus ordo masses to attend?

 

[DavidFilmer]

fultonsheen:

They claim the SSPX is not in schism, nor are those who frequent their Masses. They also claim Rome has either not decided on the appropriateness of attending SSPX churches, or that Rome has said you surely can.

Well, they’re wrong. According to a statement by the Pontifical Commission (which oversees the rights of priests to celebrate the Sacraments):

1. There is no doubt about the validity of the ordination of the priests of the Society of St. Pius X. They are, however, suspended a divinis, that is prohibited by the Church from exercising their orders because of their illicit ordination.

1. The Masses they celebrate are also valid, but it is considered morally illicit for the faithful to participate in these Masses unless they are physically or morally impeded from participating in a Mass celebrated by a Catholic priest in good standing (cf. Code of Canon Law, canon 844.2).

And it goes on to say:

With such an attitude [regarding the validity of *Novus Ordo

] the society of St. Pius X is effectively tending to establish its own canons of orthodoxy and hence to separate itself from the magisterium of the Supreme Pontiff. According to canon 751 such “refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or the communion of the members of the Church subject to him” constitute schism. (empahsis mine)

 

[Eileen_T]

We have a priest who celebrates the TLM (not SSPX) who has told his parishioners that the NO Mass is invalid and that they are not to receive the sacraments (including Confession) from priests who have been ordained since V II.

He has also tsuggested to his parishioners that when he dies they may have to go to a parish that has SSPX priests.

I attend a TLM because I prefer the solemnity and have a problem with some NO Masses (not all), where there are drums playing in the ‘band’ after Communion instead of a sacred silence, inappropriate and banal ‘hymns’ and, in some parishes, liturgical abuses.

Our PP, a holy priest, has written, and handed out to parishioners, a booklet which addresses most of these issues.

I would not attend a SSPX Mass or any other valid yet illicit Mass unless therre was no other option. If the option was a noisy and/or bland NO Mass, I would offer any annoyances as a penance for the suffering souls and the salvation of sinners.

 

[DavidFilmer]

Eileen T:

We have a priest who celebrates the TLM (not SSPX) who has told his parishioners that the [Novus Ordo] Mass is invalid and that they are not to receive the sacraments (including Confession) from priests who have been ordained since V II.

Your priest is a schismatic.

He has also tsuggested to his parishioners that when he dies they may have to go to a parish that has SSPX priests.

Your priest leads his flock to different pastures than Rome.

I attend a TLM because I prefer the solemnity and have a problem with some NO Masses (not all)…

I also like the solemnity of TLM and personally dislike Novus Ordo. But I would rather attend a bland Mass full of bad music and liturgical abuses than a Mass conducted by an openly schismatic priest who goes so far as to reject the validy of the Orders of his brother priests. Your priest is a dangerous man and he should be sanctioned by his Bishop.

 

[stanley123]

I doubt that you have read many of the works written by Martin Luther. The SSPX has given two requests for reconciliation, namely the official lifting of the excommunications and a universal indult for the TLM. Remember, Martin Luther and other Protestants were seriously antagonistic toward certain parts of the TLM.

 

[st_julie]

I work with someone who attends SSPX services. I listened to a long list of gripes about the Pope and the NO. I went home and started reading everything I could find about them and prepare a defence. Then I remembered something about myself. Before my reinversion into the Church I would not have been able to explain ever why the Church teaches the things she does. That was something that priests and nuns did. Only by rechatechesis do I now know why. I always knew what it taught.
With this rememberance I realized that this person was only repeating what the priest said and had a mind set against learning anything new. It is an act of obedience not dissent for this person.
New plan is prayer,charity in all things and be ready to answer if asked.
st julie