SSPX Salvation

[Catholic4Jesus]

Since because members of the SSPX, Sedevacantists, and members of the Old Catholic Church claim themselves to be Catholic and adhering to the teachings of the early Church and yet are in irregular standing with Rome, does that mean that they’re automatically hell-bound?

 

[otjm]

Since because members of the SSPX, Sedevacantists, and members of the Old Catholic Church claim themselves to be Catholic and adhering to the teachings of the early Church and yet are in irregular standing with Rome, does that mean that they’re automatically hell-bound?

No. Each individual is judged individually based on any number of things.

There is nothing to say that a person who is not in good standing in the Church cannot enter Heaven.

It has, however, been said repeatedly that it may well be more difficult to do so.

Then, too, Christ said that to whom much has been given, much is expected, a warning that those who are in good standing may be held to a higher requirement.

The Church has said, and has the authority to say, that those who follow the groups you mention may be endangering their faith.

A bit of a related point is that the Church has clearly said that one must follow one’s conscience.

It has also said that one has a great moral duty to have a correctly formed conscience - a point which many who reject various and sundry teachings of the Church either have not heard, or simply ignore. The Church’s teachings are not just one more thing to consider when forming one’s conscience.

 

[Esrb99]

Since because members of the SSPX, Sedevacantists, and members of the Old Catholic Church claim themselves to be Catholic and adhering to the teachings of the early Church and yet are in irregular standing with Rome, does that mean that they’re automatically hell-bound?

SSPX is ‘within’ the church, hence they have an irregular standing.

For Sedes’ it is debatable whether they are inside the church or not. You’ll see arguments for both sides. Old Catholics are not within the church-they are in schism.

I assume most of these three groups are validly baptized. Beyond that, it is hard to definitively state whether an individual who adheres to any of these groups is automatically going to hell. Indeed, someone who goes to a diocesan parish but holds heretical beliefs may incur an automatic excommunication and without penance and contrition, may be bound to hell as well. However, it is not up to any layman to declare a person or persons definitively in hell.

Now, are any of these groups the surest way to salvation? I think it could be well argued that not, this is not the case. The surest way to salvation would be through approved means by the church herself.

 

[TheDoctor]

I’ve read this twice and every time I am reminded of what a glorious and loving God we have.

OP - no one but God knows who is going to Hell and who is not. The best we can do is help each other and pray for each other that we do not send ourselves to Hell.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

Well, I would say that if someone dies a Satanist he or she is probably automatically hell-bound. Furthermore, those who choose to not respond to God’s grace and obstinately refuse to turn away from sin are hell-bound. Thus St. Paul reminds us:

*“Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, [10] Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God. --1 Cor. 6:9-10”
*

 

[Boulder257]

Okay, I’ll admit I am confused. You say that “no one can know what is the heart and mind of another person…” and then you use a story that says St. John Vianney knew what was in the heart and mind of a person…

Maybe I am reading too much into it, and if so, please tell me.

 

[TheDoctor]

Okay, I’ll admit I am confused. You say that “no one can know what is the heart and mind of another person…” and then you use a story that says St. John Vianney knew what was in the heart and mind of a person…

Maybe I am reading too much into it, and if so, please tell me.

The story goes that the only reason St. John knew was because God told him.

Only God knows what is in our minds and in our hearts at every instant we sin, therefore only God judges and only God decides. The only ones we know for sure are in Hell are Satan and the fallen angels, because Jesus told us so - for everyone else who has ever lived, all we can say is that “we don’t really know”

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

Okay, I’ll admit I am confused. You say that “no one can know what is the heart and mind of another person…” and then you use a story that says St. John Vianney knew what was in the heart and mind of a person…

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

Obviously if someone repents at the last moment he may find himself in Purgatory instead of hell; however someone who dies unrepentant goes straight to hell. This is known as the sin against the Holy Spirit. Scripture warns time and time again that death comes like a thief in the night.

As for SSPX salvation, disobedience to the Vicar of Christ and excommunication is not something to toy around with. Pope John Paul in his Motu Propio Ecclesia Dei, pleaded and warned people not to support SSPX in any way. I would surmise that such individuals would not go straight to heaven. An excommunication is meant to entice a person to repent and come back to the Church. If they obstinately refused to repent they could very well go straight to hell, and if they grudgingly repented out of fear for hell they may have to spend much time in a hot place until they’ve reached a full boil.

Here is an excerpt of JPII´s strong warning against SSPX:

• In the present circumstances I wish especially to make an appeal both solemn and heartfelt, paternal and fraternal, to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfil the grave duty of remaining united to the Vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church, and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement. Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church’s law*. (5c)

 

[Tomster]

Since because members of the SSPX, Sedevacantists, and members of the Old Catholic Church claim themselves to be Catholic and adhering to the teachings of the early Church and yet are in irregular standing with Rome, does that mean that they’re automatically hell-bound?

Please be careful C4J. The SSPX are in irregular situation right now. We need to pray for a quick resolution to this situation.

Sedevacantists are in schism which is a sin against the Mystical Body of Christ. It is a sin opposed to charity according to St. Thomas Aquinas. The Old Catholics are in the same situation. They need our prayers also.

Schism leads to heresy and these are the two greatest sins against Christ’s Mystical Body. The former attacks that charity which constitutes the union one with another of the members of the Church; the latter endeavors to ruin the faith.

As far as being automatically hell-bound, I’ll leave that up to the Lord.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

And since there is no human on earth who can make these determinations of who is repentant or not, I believe that it is safe to say that no human can say if anyone is in purgatory or hell.

We humans cannot read hearts. That’s God’s job. I suggest we leave it to Him.

Obviously if someone repents at the last moment he may find himself in Purgatory instead of hell; however someone who dies unrepentant goes straight to hell.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

And since there is no human on earth who can make these determinations of who is repentant or not, I believe that it is safe to say that no human can say if anyone is in purgatory or hell…

Hell is real, and so are fallen angels,and Jesus warned about hell over and over. So I can only assume there are damnes souls who choose to reject god’s grace. Furthermore, the miracle at Fatima, the Blessed Virgin Mary lamented how souls were falling into hell as snowflakes fall from the sky. Likewise, we have the testament of the saints, such as St. Faustina, who was granted visions of hell and that the souls of the damned are plunged into a great lake of fire, just as the children at Fatima witnessed and as Jesus Christ Himself described. As for Purgatory, only saints, that is, perfected souls, can enter heaven. So Purgatory is probably quite full. What’s more, the Church prays for the souls in Purgatory, meaning that there are souls there who need prayers, and who are making reparation for all the badness they somehow brought into the world, into their life and into the lives of others, and failed to make enough repair while they were on earth. So are there people in hell? Yes. Are there souls in purgatory? Yes. Can anyone say specifically who is there? Only God knows. We do, however know who is in heaven, and those are the saints.

 

[JM3]

piercedhearts.org/hearts_jesus_mary/apparitions/fatima/fatima_lucia_biography.html

Hell- The Virgin also spoke about hell, a theme that had been popular before and was now absent. Sister Lucia’s words were very clear: “Hell is a reality. It is a supernatural fire and not physical. It cannot be compared to fire that burns wood or charcoal.”
She offered advice to priests on this topic: “Continue preaching about hell because Our Lord himself spoke about hell, and it is in Sacred Scripture. God does not condemn anyone to hell. God gave men the liberty to choose, and God respects this human liberty.”

Atheism and materialism Sister Lucia recognizes, “atheism is a greater instrument utilized by the devil in our days. It is a grave sin against God that rejects His own existence and allows the practice of a variety of diabolic acts like abortion.” As well, she said, “Communism ended, but materialism continues…People should desire more the things of God instead of first desiring the material things.” Final Message The Cardinals asked her if she wanted to conclude with anything in particular, a message for the world today. She responded: “He who is not with the Pope is not with God; and he who wants to be with God has to be with the Pope.”

She responded: “He who is not with the Pope is not with God; and he who wants to be with God has to be with the Pope.”

 

[Diana_Catherine]

Hell is real, and so are fallen angels,and Jesus warned about hell over and over. So I can only assume there are damnes souls who choose to reject god’s grace. Furthermore, the miracle at Fatima, the Blessed Virgin Mary lamented how souls were falling into hell as snowflakes fall from the sky. Likewise, we have the testament of the saints, such as St. Faustina, who was granted visions of hell and that the souls of the damned are plunged into a great lake of fire, just as the children at Fatima witnessed and as Jesus Christ Himself described. As for Purgatory, only saints, that is, perfected souls, can enter heaven. So Purgatory is probably quite full. What’s more, the Church prays for the souls in Purgatory, meaning that there are souls there who need prayers, and who are making reparation for all the badness they somehow brought into the world, into their life and into the lives of others, and failed to make enough repair while they were on earth. So are there people in hell? Yes. Are there souls in purgatory? Yes. Can anyone say specifically who is there? Only God knows. We do, however know who is in heaven, and those are the saints.

Very well said.