St. Augustine and colonization: Comparing Islamic and Catholic History

[Tatclan]

I’m reading a book by Dr. Nabeel Jabbour who is an evangelical christian (formerly Orthodox) and Islamic historian originally from middle east and who lived in Egypt. In his book “The Crescent through the Eyes of the Cross” he references St. Augustine and his followers (page 62 in my version) as paving the way for colonization. He says this was clearly explained in a book called “Transforming Mission” by David Bosch. He claims our history of the crusades is biased and much different than what the Muslims are taught in their history books. He also claims that they are still to this day leery of western colonization of Muslim nations through wars in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, and now possibly Syria and Iran…

I have many friends who are Muslim that I have met through my vocation. We often talk about faith in God and spirituality. I am a practicing Catholic and have worked with Muslims from many countries (USA, Canada, Egypt, Jordan, India, Pakistan, Syria, Dubai, Sudan, Nigeria). I have a great love and respect for them. They are all in the medical field and vary in level of devotion to their faith from culturally Muslim, to atheist, to Agnostic, to devout. I have found in my line of work that religion is a common topic of discussion, especially from those who come from places that know very little about Christianity. Through our friendships (many that are long lasting) they have come to respect Catholicism more just due to my friendship with them.

I would love to learn more, but unfortunately, most of the works I am finding on Islamic study for Christians is mainly Protestant, or it is strictly apologetic, and this has been a hindrance for me (I am a protestant convert from 25+ years ago and I have come to learn from my Muslim friends that they don’t want to argue and defend their faith with Christians). I wish there was a comprehensive book from the Catholic perspective that can discuss this and other matters, taking into consideration the worldview of most modern Muslims. In my experience, the Muslim’s that I’ve met who have been evangelized by Evangelicals have had a very negative experience by it. Many are turned off by those that talk the talk but in their eyes, don’t walk the walk. I think Jabbour’s book elude’s to this attitude.

So, was St. Augustine a colonialist? Did the Catholic Church have an ugly history of colonizing by force much like the Ottoman Empire? Is there a book with a balanced perspective written from a Catholic world view that you can suggest to me?

 

[MPat]

Did the Catholic Church have an ugly history of colonizing by force much like the Ottoman Empire?

First of all, what is meant by “colonizing” here? I’m pretty sure that term “conquest” describes actions of Ottoman Empire much better than “colonizing”.

In his book “The Crescent through the Eyes of the Cross” he references St. Augustine and his followers (page 62 in my version) as paving the way for colonization.

As if Romans and Greeks and just about everyone else before him did not know how to get more territory?

If the author really claims that, there is no good reason to take him seriously.

He claims our history of the crusades is biased and much different than what the Muslims are taught in their history books.

History textbooks are notoriously different in different countries. And?

Also, aren’t Muslim textbooks biased as well, just differently?

Perhaps the author might be, um, somewhat biased himself…?

 

[fredystairs]

Dear Tatcian,

I had a question. Who was St Augustine and where/when did he colonize?

One recommendation that I have for learning about the Crusades is Professor Steve Weidenkopf’s book “The Glory of the Crusades” which explains the Crusades from a Catholic point of view. Professor Weidenkopf is a superb Catholic historian. Perhaps that would help you.

 

[De_Maria]

I’m reading a book by Dr. Nabeel Jabbour … he references St. Augustine and his followers (page 62 in my version) as paving the way for colonization.

How? St. Augustine wasn’t a general or warfaring man. Neither did he run some sort of warring faction. He was a Bishop. A Catholic Priest. Does he explain how St. Augustine he believes that St. Augustine paved the way for colonization?

He says this was clearly explained in a book called “Transforming Mission” by David Bosch. He claims our history of the crusades is biased and much different than what the Muslims are taught in their history books. He also claims that they are still to this day leery of western colonization of Muslim nations through wars in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, and now possibly Syria and Iran…

Protestant history of the Crusades is biased. Catholic history is true.

I have many friends who are Muslim that I have met through my vocation. We often talk about faith in God and spirituality. I am a practicing Catholic and have worked with Muslims from many countries (USA, Canada, Egypt, Jordan, India, Pakistan, Syria, Dubai, Sudan, Nigeria). I have a great love and respect for them. They are all in the medical field and vary in level of devotion to their faith from culturally Muslim, to atheist, to Agnostic, to devout. I have found in my line of work that religion is a common topic of discussion, especially from those who come from places that know very little about Christianity. Through our friendships (many that are long lasting) they have come to respect Catholicism more just due to my friendship with them.

That’s great!

I would love to learn more, but unfortunately, most of the works I am finding on Islamic study for Christians is mainly Protestant, … I wish there was a comprehensive book from the Catholic perspective that can discuss this and other matters,…

There is. I had a couple but they love to use Cross and Crescent in the title and I can’t remember the exact titles from a Catholic perspective.

So, was St. Augustine a colonialist?

No. He was a Catholic Bishop.

Did the Catholic Church have an ugly history of colonizing by force much like the Ottoman Empire?

No. Catholic countries, mainly Spain and Portugal, colonized much of the world. They brought Catholicism where ever they went, but they were national endeavors.

Is there a book with a balanced perspective written from a Catholic world view that you can suggest to me?

Yes. How about these? But meantime, you might want to read about St. Augustine, Saint and Doctor of the Catholic Church.

 

[SuperLuigi]

So, was St. Augustine a colonialist? Did the Catholic Church have an ugly history of colonizing by force much like the Ottoman Empire? Is there a book with a balanced perspective written from a Catholic world view that you can suggest to me?

Governments colonized, not the Church.

No. Catholic countries, mainly Spain and Portugal, colonized much of the world. They brought Catholicism where ever they went, but they were national endeavors

As historical commentator Carl Benjamin notes “Muslims and Christians were actually more civilized for their time even when they engaged in conquest”.

Fact is these folks were products of their time. 150 years ago it was chattel slavery of West Africans. Today it’s abortion.

Not saying any of these were right, of course, but using today’s standards for yesterday should have appropriate context.