St. Augustine's views on sex...HELP!

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When an anti Catholic quotes the writings on St. Augustine and St. Jerome on the uncleanliness of sex, what does one do?? Am I right in saying that they are not the magisterium of the church and were entitled to their own opinions??
 
I tell non-Catholics (and especially non-Christians) that yeah, pre-marital sex, masturbation, lust, is a sin. So is selfishly wanting material things (even chasing financial security), so is desiring another’s possessions (I like motorcycles), and it all stems from PRIDE, because we often know not our miserable state and can talk ourselves into believing we deserve this love.
 
(not sure such a word was used…)

I am leaving now for a week…

But search the This Rock on the main CA site…or even call CA apologists for more details…

or contact Jimmy Akin for more details…

I got to run…
 
When an anti Catholic quotes the writings on St. Augustine and St. Jerome on the uncleanliness of sex, what does one do?? Am I right in saying that they are not the magisterium of the church and were entitled to their own opinions??
What were the quotes and are they accurate?

fordham.edu/halsall/source/aug-marr.html
St Augustine:
From “On Marriage and Concupiscence”
BOOK I, CHAP. 16 --A CERTAIN DEGREE OF INTEMPERANCE IS TO BE TOLERATED IN THE CASE OF MARRIED PERSONS; THE USE OF MATRIMONY FOR THE MERE PLEASURE OF LUST IS NOT WITHOUT SIN, BUT BECAUSE OF THE NUPTIAL RELATION THE SIN IS VENIAL.
But in the married, as these things are desirable and praiseworthy, so the others are to be tolerated, that no lapse occur into damnable sins; that is, into fornications and adulteries. To escape this evil, even such embraces of husband and wife as have not procreation for their object, but serve an overbearing concupiscence, are permitted, so far as to be within range of forgiveness, though not prescribed by way of commandment: and the married pair are enjoined not to defraud one the other, lest Satan should tempt them by reason of their incontinence. For thus says the Scripture: “Let the husband render unto the wife her due: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other; except it be with consent for a time, that ye may have leisure for prayer; and then come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.” Now in a case where permission must be given, it cannot by any means be contended that there is not some amount of sin. Since, however, the cohabitation for the purpose of procreating children, which must be admitted to be the proper end of marriage, is not sinful, what is it which the apostle allows to be permissible, but that married persons, when they have not the gift of continence, may require one from the other the due of the flesh - and that not from a wish for procreation, but for the pleasure of concupiscence? This gratification incurs not the imputation of guilt on account of marriage, but receives permission on account of marriage. This, therefore, must be reckoned among the praises of matrimony; that, on its own account, it makes pardonable that which does not essentially appertain to itself. For the nuptial embrace, which subserves the demands of concupiscence, is so effected as not to impede the child-bearing, which is the end and aim of marriage.
 
St Augustine also thought you could determine the sex of a child by swinging a pendulum over the pregnant woman…that is the spin…

St. Augustine himself was converted to Catholicism when he finally saw that his inner temple was dominated by the spirit of lust. He had his lovers, and a mistress with a child…and he was a Montanist…they had their ideas and practices regarding contraception…

He has alot to say about sex in regards to others…but you have to separate his humanity and personal issues, and the composition of his psyche because all of it reflected his own past behaviors. You have to separate his humanity from what was truly inspired by the Lord.

Don’t look too much ever on any one theologian or saint…because eventually you will see their humanity.

Catholicism looks at Scripture from the context of its whole, all in relation to each other…same with the saints and theologians…

Don’t ever go out on an island with just one saint…you might want to put a SOS sign and want out asap.

Instead, look to the common faith of believers that always bear the one true fruit, Jesus Christ.
 
Requires log in, so you will have to post the quotes and their source (if given. If not then ask for them).
St. Augustine believed that Adam and Eve’s problem in the Garden was because of sex. "He believed that the account of Adam and Eve’s sin against God in Genesis 3 uses symbolic language, that the ‘forbidden fruit’ actually represented sex. He thought Eve conceived and bore children in pain (Genesis 3:16) because sex is sinful, and any kind of sexual activity brings pain.
“According to St. Augustine, human beings should ask God’s forgiveness for even thinking about sex and should abstain whenever possible. In fact, Augustine said, ‘Men and women who want to be righteous in God’s sight should live in celibacy; i.e., without sexual contact.’ His adherents believed their leaders should live in church monasteries and convents without even conversing with the opposite sex.” ** ( Lester Sumrall )
"In his book on Western sexual morality, C. W. Lloyd says: ‘Augustine’s writings have probably exerted more influence in the West on love and sexual practice than those of any other man. The clearest expression of the innate evil in sexual passion, even within marriage, is set forth.
Augustine’s teachings gave theological structure to feelings of guilt and shame in a biological drive. However, the enforcement of the doctrine of sexual guilt was difficult. The struggle was to impose celibacy on the clergy. It was only moderately successful until well into the Middle Ages.’
“In other words, Christians had a hard time accepting Augustine’s ideas about sex. They weren’t certain that God wanted them to live in celibacy. The church struggled to keep its leaders obedient to this rule. In fact, sexual prohibition was one of the first doctrines that Martin Luther and the other Reformers broke away from. Luther left the monastery to marry a nun.” ** ( Lester Sumrall )
 
He does not give a source, but he says this is what Augustine believed. And he also has some beliefs of Jerome.

He (Jovinian) says that “virgins, widows, and married women, who have been once passed through the layer of Christ, if they are on a par in other respects, are of equal merit.”

Jerome considered such teachings the hissing of the old serpent that drove man from Paradise. He added:
This is the hissing of the old serpent; by counsel such as this the dragon drove man from Paradise.
We know that in a great house, there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and earthenware. And that upon the foundation, Christ, which Paul the master-builder laid, some build gold, silver, precious stones: others, on the contrary, hay, wood, straw. We are not ignorant of the words, " Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled." We have read God’s first command, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth "; but while we honor marriage we prefer virginity which is the offspring of marriage. Will silver cease to be silver, if gold is more precious than silver? Or is despite done to tree and corn, if we prefer the fruit to root and foliage, or the grain to stalk and ear? Virginity is to marriage what fruit is to the tree, or grain to the straw. Although the hundred-fold, the sixty-fold, and the thirty-fold spring from one earth and from one sowing, yet there is a great difference in respect of number. The thirty-fold has reference to marriage.
The very way the fingers are combined — see how they seem to embrace, tenderly kiss, and pledge their troth either to other — is a picture of husband and wife. The sixty-fold applies to widows, because they are placed in a position of difficulty and distress. Hence the upper finger signifies their depression, and the greater the difficulty in resisting the allurements of pleasure once experienced, the greater the reward. Moreover (give good heed, my reader), to denote a hundred, the right hand is used instead of the left: a circle is made with the same fingers which on the left hand represented widowhood, and thus the crown of virginity is expressed
 
and more from Jerome.

The truth is that, in view of the purity oThe truth is that, in view of the purity of the body of Christ, all sexual intercourse is uncleanf the body of Christ, all sexual intercourse is unclean

I don’t know what the sources are.
 
and more from Jerome.

The truth is that, in view of the purity oThe truth is that, in view of the purity of the body of Christ, all sexual intercourse is uncleanf the body of Christ, all sexual intercourse is unclean

I don’t know what the sources are.
This is their source.

patriarchywebsite.com/bib-patriarchy/deception-jerome-marriage-sex.htm

They are taking St. Jerome out of context.

sacred-texts.com/chr/ecf/206/2060169.htm
  1. What, I ask, is the meaning of these portentous words and of this grotesque description? Would you not think he was in a feverish dream, or that he was seized with madness and ought to be put into the strait jacket which Hippocrates prescribed? However often I read him, even till my heart sinks within me, I am still in uncertainty of his meaning. 4261 Everything starts from, everything depends upon, something else. It is impossible to make out any connection; and, excepting the proofs from Scripture which he has not dared to exchange for his own lovely flowers of rhetoric, his words suit all matter equally well, because they suit no matter at all. This circumstance led me shrewdly to suspect that his object in proclaiming the excellence of marriage was only to disparage virginity. For when the less is put upon a level with the greater, the lower profits by comparison, but the higher suffers wrong. For ourselves, we do not follow the views of 4262 Marcion and Manichæus, and disparage marriage; nor, deceived by the error of 4263 Tatian, the leader of the Encratites, do we think all intercourse impure; he condemns and rejects not only marriage but also food which God created for the use of man.
 
Thank you once again JM3!!! You don’t know how much of a help that is.
 
When an anti Catholic quotes the writings on St. Augustine and St. Jerome on the uncleanliness of sex, what does one do?? Am I right in saying that they are not the magisterium of the church and were entitled to their own opinions??
Judging from your other posts, you seem obsessed with sex and what you can and cannot get away with. Think of it this way; if Jesus was standing next to you, would He be okay with whatever sex act you were doing? If not, don’t do it.
 
St Augustine’s writings on marriage and sexuality have been widely misrepresented and even twisted out of context. Vatican II cites St Augustine as a basis for its teaching.

One of the best considerations of St Augustine’s thought is by none other than Msgr Cormac P Burke, a priest of the Opus Del Prelature, who was a judge of the Roman Rota (the High Court of the Church), and taught at the Roman University of the Holy Cross, and can be found at churchinhistory.org/pages/booklets/augustine.htm

Another great article of his is at cormacburke.or.ke/node/984
**The De-humanization of marital sex
May/05/2011 **
 
St Augustine’s writings on marriage and sexuality have been widely misrepresented and even twisted out of context. Vatican II cites St Augustine as a basis for its teaching.

One of the best considerations of St Augustine’s thought is by none other than Msgr Cormac P Burke, a priest of the Opus Del Prelature, who was a judge of the Roman Rota (the High Court of the Church), and taught at the Roman University of the Holy Cross, and can be found at churchinhistory.org/pages/booklets/augustine.htm

Another great article of his is at cormacburke.or.ke/node/984
**The De-humanization of marital sex
May/05/2011 **
Thank you Abu!!! This is a huge help against this anti catholic person. I tell you …i am learning so much from defending my faith. It is great. And thanks to all of you of CA!!!
 
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