St. Malachy

[Faith1960]

First of all, Happy Mother’s Day to all the moms out there. Second, I became familiar with the prophesy of St. Malachy not too long ago. In trying to research it, I’m not coming up with anything definitive about the Church denying the truth of his prophesy.
Most of the things I’ve read say it’s “probably” not true but most, if not all, the information I read had been written prior to Pope Francis’ election to pope.

With the election of Pope Francis, does that finally disprove St. Malachy’s predictions as false?

 

[agnes_therese]

First of all, Happy Mother’s Day to all the moms out there. Second, I became familiar with the prophesy of St. Malachy not too long ago. In trying to research it, I’m not coming up with anything definitive about the Church denying the truth of his prophesy.
Most of the things I’ve read say it’s “probably” not true but most, if not all, the information I read had been written prior to Pope Francis’ election to pope.

With the election of Pope Francis, does that finally disprove St. Malachy’s predictions as false?

Just do a search here on the forums. There have been a number of discussions. These “prophecies” have been debunked long before the election of Pope Francis.

 

[Lancer]

Happy Mothers Day…to one and all…including all of our Spiritual Mothers in Christ.

One of the best…intelligent, balanced…objective reports on the prophecy of Saint Malachy…written by Jimmy Akin of Catholic answers:…two excerpts (# 5 & # 6) with link to complete article.

For me…Christ did not do all that he did here on Earth…and continues to do through his Holy Spirit in His Body, The Church…just to leave us in the “dark”…we know all that we are supposed to know…need to know…and what to do in each of our lives. But like many, I too am intrigued by all the “stuff” surrounding this great Saint.

Pax Christi

9 things you need to know about the prophecy of St. Malachy
by Jimmy Akin Sunday, **February 24, 2013 **9:23 PM

5. What evidence is there concerning its authenticity?
A significant mark against its authenticity is the fact that it was not published until 1595, though St. Malachy died in 1148. There is no record of the prophecy existing in the intervening 447 years.
Allegedly, this was because the prophecy lay, forgotten, in a Roman archive, and it was not rediscovered until 1590.
This explanation is possible in principle, but the fact that we cannot establish its existence for hundreds of years until after its supposed author’s death is also consistent with the claim that it was a forgery composed around 1590 and then “salted” into the archive. (“Salting” is the term used for planting false records in archives.) It also may never have been in the archive but merely claimed to be.
While the fact that we have no mention of this document in the hundreds of years between the times of its reported composition and re-discovery does not prove that it is false, it does cast significant doubt on its authenticity.

6. How else can the reliability of the prophecy be evaluated?
If it is not possible to establish an external, historical record for the prophecy then the next logical approach is to examine its contents to see which theory of its origins they are more consistent with: Do the contents seem to suggest that it was written in the 1100s or do they suggest that it was written around 1590?
Many observers have thought the latter. One reason is that the “mottoes” for the period prior to 1590 are very easy to connect with the popes they allegedly represent.
By contrast, the mottoes assigned to the popes coming after 1590 are much harder to connect with the popes they allegedly represent, and often this can be done only in a contrived way.
The mottoes generally contain references to one of several things, including the pope’s name (his papal name, his birth name, or his family name), his place of origin, or a heraldic crest connected with him (his papal arms, his family crest, or the crest of his order or place of origin).
They often involve plays on words regarding these things, though that is more obvious in Latin than in English.

Read more: ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/9-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-prophecy-of-st.-malachy#ixzz2T6aDqm77

 

[Faith1960]

Wouldn’t the election of Pope Francis, as well as some of the other popes put this whole prophesy to rest?

 

[sparkfrompoland]

The Church has never stated anything to my knowledge about the prophecies of St Malachy. The only appeared 4 centuries after they wee supposedly written.
There is a great wealth of modern prophetic teachings from popes concerning the end of time.
www.divinemercypopes.com

 

[CB_Catholic]

Wouldn’t the election of Pope Francis, as well as some of the other popes put this whole prophesy to rest?

I doubt it. People WANT to believe in these things. Those who believe would find a way around anything that could prove it was false.

We see this all the time in so-called end-times prophecies. When Christ fails to appear or the world fails to end on a predicted date, people just pick another date. The JW’s have a history of this, as do other groups.

Many people just do not want to give up their cherished beliefs even if they are proved wrong.

 

[Faith1960]

I doubt it. People WANT to believe in these things. Those who believe would find a way around anything that could prove it was false.

We see this all the time in so-called end-times prophecies. When Christ fails to appear or the world fails to end on a predicted date, people just pick another date. The JW’s have a history of this, as do other groups.

Many people just do not want to give up their cherished beliefs even if they are proved wrong.

That is so strange, but seems to be true.

 

[Izabroke]

Hi, I know it has been a while since anyone posted on this, but reading your posts helped me allot! I found a supposedly Catholic site that had allot of very strange and negative videos.One was about Malachy, saying that pope John Paul and Pope Francis were "Anti-Popes I now think sites like these are meant to shake our faith, and give Satan a chance to weaken the Catholic church. Take care and God bless

 

[cthulhubryan]

Hi, I know it has been a while since anyone posted on this, but reading your posts helped me allot! I found a supposedly Catholic site that had allot of very strange and negative videos.One was about Malachy, saying that pope John Paul and Pope Francis were "Anti-Popes I now think sites like these are meant to shake our faith, and give Satan a chance to weaken the Catholic church. Take care and God bless

I was reading somewhere that all Popes since John XXIII (some say Paul VI) are Anti Popes, but that seems odd to me. Anytime I hear people talking about things like this I remember the words of Christ (Matt 16:18 rsv) And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

So if the powers of death (gates of hell in other versions) cannot do that, I doubt that anyone can.

It is also interesting that the site you speak of mentions John Paul (I assume blessed JP II) and Francis but not Benedict XVI. Of course, calling Benedict XVI an Anti-pope would be fightin’ words!

 

[Izabroke]

Hi, thank you for your reply, that site did in fact mention Pope Benedict! I thought Pope John Paul ll was the most amazing and holy person! It is sad this garbage is out there, Claiming to be a “Catholic” site, it is sad, hopefully people wont fall for it!

 

[jeffrey_erwin]

Dear Faith,

I’ve been doing a little research on the “Prophecy of the Popes.” Here is what I’ve found:
A number of critiques have been written, all of which alter the original paragraph structure as it was first published by Fr. Arnold Wion in 1595.

Fr. M.J. O’Brien published in 1880 his “An Historical and Critical Account of the So-Called Prophecy of St. Malachy,” and he convincingly established that Fr. Wion was the author of the prophecy. But Fr. O’Brien altered Fr. Wion’s paragraph structure in a critical way.

Fr. Wion’s original contains 113 mottos or sayings regarding the popes. The first 111 of these consist of just one line. Number 112 contains two lines, while number 113 has eight.
(Wion’s original may be seen on Wikipedia.)
The last five mottos, starting with the one for Pope John Paul I, look something like this:
(I am unable to exactly reproduce the structure here.)

(109.)De mediatate lunae. (J.P.I)

(110.)De labore solis. (J.P.II)

(111.)Gloria olivae. (Benedict XVI)

(112.)In psecutione.extre-
ma S.R.E. sedebit. (Francis)

(113.)Petrus Romanus, qui
pascet oves in mul-
tis tribulationibus:
quibus transactis ci-
vitas septicollis di-
ruetur, & Iudex tre
medus iudicabit po
pulum suum. Finis.

If this structure is adhered to, then it becomes clear that Pope Francis cannot be Peter the Roman for the simple reason that Francis is Pope number 112 on Wion’s list while the “Petrus Romanus” motto is number 113. Francis’s motto should properly be translated:

“He will sit in the final persecution. of the Holy Roman Church.”

In 1624, just 29 years after Fr. Wion, Fr. Tomas Messingham published his “Florilegium Insulae Santorum.”
In 1694 published by F. Menetrier: “La Philosophie des Images Enigmatiques.”
1873: "La Prophetie de al Succesion Des Papes’ by Cucherat.
1708: “Les elemens De L’Histoire,” De vallemont.
And, of course, 1880 for Fr. O’Brien’s above mentioned work.
Common to all of these five works is the critical alteration of Fr. Wion’s paragraph structure.

Messingham (1624):

(111.) Gloria Olivae.

(112.) In persecution extre-
ma S.R.E sedebit Petrus
Romanus qui pascet oves
in multis tribulationibus:
quibus transactis civitas
septicollis diruetur,& iu-
dex tremed*iudicabit po-
pulum suum. FINIS

Notice how mottos number 112 and number 113 have been combined into one, thereby eliminating number 113. Every subsequent analyst has followed Messingham’s lead. This error has led to our present day confusion regarding Pope Francis and Peter the Roman.

Faith, for a special treat, google: “Pastor Angelicus, Pius XII, 1942 film.”

And please allow me to add my opinion that "Petrus Romanus " refers to a historical person of the greatest importance to us. Clues may be found in the Gospels:
Mathew 27:52,53,54 and John 21:16,17.

PETROS
ENI

Jeffrey