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Safe_Eagle
Guest
Is the list of Popes given us from St. Malacy credible?
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LilyM
Guest
Less believeable than the prophecies of Nostradamus … which predicted that Napoleon would win the battle of Waterloo (if you know anything about history, he didn’tIs the list of Popes given us from St. Malacy credible?
)In other words don’t give 'em a second thought. ‘No-one knows the day or the hour, not even the Son’ as our Lord said.
J
JesuXPIPassio
Guest
Scholars seem to indicate that the answer is no, and that they really don’t have anything to do with Malachi; rather, they supposedly had been written long after Malachi had died, and forgers just claimed it was his.
Saint Malachi died in 1148. The supposed prophecies surfaced over 500 years later, and there are no historical records to prove that it existed before then.
I looked through the list of the prophecies and it looks like each prophecy could be applied to virtually anybody.
Urban VII (+1590) is called the “Dew of the heavens.” But this description can fit Innocent IX too. Innocent was the Patriarch of Jerusalem, and one can try to make a correlation between the Manna from Heaven that God gave to the Jewish people and how Innocent IX was the patriarch over the Jewish capitol. Clement VIII is called the “Cross of Romulus,” but again this title can fit Innocent IX as well – he was Patriarch of where the Cross had been buried.
The prediction for Pius III was “From a little man.” But this can fit a lot of popes. It could fit John XXIII, who came from a poor family – little, humble people. It could fit Benedict XVI, whose dad was vehemently opposed to the Nazis, so politically he was a little man.
Innocent XI’s prophecy was “Insatiable Beast.” That makes it sound as if he was a bad, violent man who was engrossed in the pleasures of the flesh. Yet Innocent XI wasn’t like that at all – he had been declared blessed and they found that his body had been well-preserved.
Pius IX was called the “Cross of the Cross.” Not only can this fit any pope, but it can fit any human being. It fits Pius XII particularly well – he was Pope during World War II, which was a Cross he had to bear, and it followed after the Cross of World War I.
Pius X is called “Burning fire.” I really don’t see any connection here. It would seem to fit Pius XII better, since he had been unfairly blamed for not doing enough to prevent the holocaust. Holocaust means “burnt offering.”
Pius XII is called the “Angelic Shepherd.” Really, such a title could refer to any of the last nine popes. It could especially go for John XXIII, whose name was Angelo, and as a child he worked in a farm – a job that probably included herding animals. “Angelic Shepherd” could also refer to John Paul II, whose Apostolic Constitution governing Conclave procedures was called “Universi Dominici Gregis,” all the Lord’s Flock, which can easily relate to “Angelic Shepherd.” It could also refer to Pope Benedict XVI who brought back the ancient Pallium, which was made from wool of sheep.
John XXIII is called the “Pastor and Sailor.” This can fit both Paul VI and John Paul II, who traveled the world. They traveled by air, though such a thing would be unheard of in Malachi’s time, so to better explain it, it could be called “Sailing.”
Benedict XVI is called the “Glory of the Olive.” But this can be interpreted in an infinite amount of ways. The olive makes me think of the Garden of Olives, Gethsemane; that makes me think of the Agony in the Garden, which is a part of the Rosary; then that makes me think of John Paul II, was altered the Rosary.
Check this out en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes#Popes_and_corresponding_mottos
I admit, some of the predictions fit the popes pretty well. But for the most part, that just isn’t the case. With a lot of them, no correlation can be found between the pope and the prophecy, even centuries after those popes had died.
Even if the prophecies were real, it really doesn’t help us much. It doesn’t tell us exactly who will be the next pope, and it doesn’t give any specifics as to date and time. It gives a final pope, but that doesn’t help us either, because it won’t give any real clue as to when the end of the world will be.
It’s nothing more than a parlour game. It’s like that exercise psychiatrists do with word associations. It doesn’t tell us anything about God or the world – it only tells us what we have in our own heads.
The Malachi predictions are as valid as me predicting right now that one of the readers of this post will have pain tomorrow. It could mean anything. Someone might sleep crooked and wake up with a sore neck. Someone might sprain an ankle. A man might cut himself while shaving. Someone could be in the shower while a toilet in the house is flushed. Someone could have coffee spilt onto his or her lap. Someone might get a papercut reading the Sunday paper. Someone might go out for his or her usual Sunday brunch and accidentally bite his tongue. Yet they’d all remember my prophecy that they would suffer some sort of pain.
The only prophecies I’m listening to with full trust are the ones uttered by Jesus. Even the Apostles made some wrong predictions – they thought they’d be alive to see the end of the world.
Saint Malachi died in 1148. The supposed prophecies surfaced over 500 years later, and there are no historical records to prove that it existed before then.
I looked through the list of the prophecies and it looks like each prophecy could be applied to virtually anybody.
Urban VII (+1590) is called the “Dew of the heavens.” But this description can fit Innocent IX too. Innocent was the Patriarch of Jerusalem, and one can try to make a correlation between the Manna from Heaven that God gave to the Jewish people and how Innocent IX was the patriarch over the Jewish capitol. Clement VIII is called the “Cross of Romulus,” but again this title can fit Innocent IX as well – he was Patriarch of where the Cross had been buried.
The prediction for Pius III was “From a little man.” But this can fit a lot of popes. It could fit John XXIII, who came from a poor family – little, humble people. It could fit Benedict XVI, whose dad was vehemently opposed to the Nazis, so politically he was a little man.
Innocent XI’s prophecy was “Insatiable Beast.” That makes it sound as if he was a bad, violent man who was engrossed in the pleasures of the flesh. Yet Innocent XI wasn’t like that at all – he had been declared blessed and they found that his body had been well-preserved.
Pius IX was called the “Cross of the Cross.” Not only can this fit any pope, but it can fit any human being. It fits Pius XII particularly well – he was Pope during World War II, which was a Cross he had to bear, and it followed after the Cross of World War I.
Pius X is called “Burning fire.” I really don’t see any connection here. It would seem to fit Pius XII better, since he had been unfairly blamed for not doing enough to prevent the holocaust. Holocaust means “burnt offering.”
Pius XII is called the “Angelic Shepherd.” Really, such a title could refer to any of the last nine popes. It could especially go for John XXIII, whose name was Angelo, and as a child he worked in a farm – a job that probably included herding animals. “Angelic Shepherd” could also refer to John Paul II, whose Apostolic Constitution governing Conclave procedures was called “Universi Dominici Gregis,” all the Lord’s Flock, which can easily relate to “Angelic Shepherd.” It could also refer to Pope Benedict XVI who brought back the ancient Pallium, which was made from wool of sheep.
John XXIII is called the “Pastor and Sailor.” This can fit both Paul VI and John Paul II, who traveled the world. They traveled by air, though such a thing would be unheard of in Malachi’s time, so to better explain it, it could be called “Sailing.”
Benedict XVI is called the “Glory of the Olive.” But this can be interpreted in an infinite amount of ways. The olive makes me think of the Garden of Olives, Gethsemane; that makes me think of the Agony in the Garden, which is a part of the Rosary; then that makes me think of John Paul II, was altered the Rosary.
Check this out en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes#Popes_and_corresponding_mottos
I admit, some of the predictions fit the popes pretty well. But for the most part, that just isn’t the case. With a lot of them, no correlation can be found between the pope and the prophecy, even centuries after those popes had died.
Even if the prophecies were real, it really doesn’t help us much. It doesn’t tell us exactly who will be the next pope, and it doesn’t give any specifics as to date and time. It gives a final pope, but that doesn’t help us either, because it won’t give any real clue as to when the end of the world will be.
It’s nothing more than a parlour game. It’s like that exercise psychiatrists do with word associations. It doesn’t tell us anything about God or the world – it only tells us what we have in our own heads.
The Malachi predictions are as valid as me predicting right now that one of the readers of this post will have pain tomorrow. It could mean anything. Someone might sleep crooked and wake up with a sore neck. Someone might sprain an ankle. A man might cut himself while shaving. Someone could be in the shower while a toilet in the house is flushed. Someone could have coffee spilt onto his or her lap. Someone might get a papercut reading the Sunday paper. Someone might go out for his or her usual Sunday brunch and accidentally bite his tongue. Yet they’d all remember my prophecy that they would suffer some sort of pain.
The only prophecies I’m listening to with full trust are the ones uttered by Jesus. Even the Apostles made some wrong predictions – they thought they’d be alive to see the end of the world.
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