St Thomas Aquinas and women teaching

[Monica4316]

Does anyone know if St Gemma Galgani ever taught in a school? because I found a quote about her that seems to suggest this… this is a memory of her by one of her students (?)

"It must be said that no one else recalled the superhuman grace of Gemma more than Pilade Franceschi. He met her when he was young by Mr. Marchetti, and he remained her dear affectionate friend. He recalls this secret chaste veneration he had for her. He describes : “… her dress clean, simple, black like the one of a girl at a boarding school. Her eyes large and luminous with an ever present expression of a reflective intelligence. Her eyelids lowered just a little, a face from which goodness and modesty transpired; her inner recollection was a mature composure. Time has never dimmed this memory. I recall myself in the classroom cared and guided by Gemma Galgani a sweet and enchanting teacher, ready to help me…this gentle maiden was so lovely and full of kind cares. She had inexhaustible goodness, indulgence and patience. She was so faithful and capable to educate even those who were unruly. She was so alien to resentment, pride and ambitions. She was to me like an angelic image of perfection that left an indelible imprint in my young child heart”.

(p.423) "One could think by appearances the very opposite to be true of what I am stating. However I want to point out that even though our destiny in life has been so different, any comparison would be almost sacrilegious. I have been profoundly influenced by her teachings and by a beneficial influx of her noble soul…

“As time was passing by the slight difference in age became non existent and we considered each other as classmates. Gemma so humble and frank and so estranged to any alternate motives, she seemed to forget that she was my teacher during my tender youth and she was treating me as we were on the same level. I was feeling and ardent emotional affection and a lively devotion towards this being so superior that it would make my heart beat… She was not a relative of mine, and I was never in love with her. I could not have for the fact that she was a superior creature and because of my respect for her. I will never forget our sacred friendship. In all the most difficult moment of my life, I always found myself asking the question: ‘What would Gemma say’…?”

 

[LemonAndLime]

okay

There was something about this on Ask an Apologist. If you are trying to imitate someone you are trying to act exactly like them, however if you are trying to emulate them then you are taking the essence of how the person was and trying to apply it to your own life, instead of trying to have someone else’s life. Does that make sense?

The reason I mentioned that is because St Thomas Aquinas talked about women teaching privately but said it’s not permitted for women to teach publically. (there’s a whole question about whether that refers to teaching in Church or just teaching).

Why does it matter what he teaches? It’s not doctrine and it was just his opinion on his society during the time he lived. If he was a very important Saint to you then I can understand why you would be concerned about not following his expectations for women.

I think you are being over scrupulous. I don’t mean in a bad way, you’re not going over the top, but I do not think you have cause for concern. Don’t worry.

 

[Monica4316]

I’ll try to find out more about what St Thomas Aquinas meant, in my understanding (and it could be flawed) it seems to relate to humility, not wanting to have a place of authority in the Church and over men, and not teaching publically in Church… there are also some other forms of teaching that I personally would not be comfortable with though they are secular (like being a university professor, imo). As we can see there have been female Saints who taught children in schools, and the work they did was humble and simple, so maybe it depends on the type of teaching. I’ll try to ask a priest when I get the chance.

 

[Monica4316]

There was something about this on Ask an Apologist. If you are trying to imitate someone you are trying to act exactly like them, however if you are trying to emulate them then you are taking the essence of how the person was and trying to apply it to your own life, instead of trying to have someone else’s life. Does that make sense?

yes, it does

Why does it matter what he teaches? It’s not doctrine and it was just his opinion on his society during the time he lived. If he was a very important Saint to you then I can understand why you would be concerned about not following his expectations for women.

I think you are being over scrupulous. I don’t mean in a bad way, you’re not going over the top, but I do not think you have cause for concern. Don’t worry.

haha it’s true I can be scrupulous.

I think it’s just how my mind works, I generally don’t think of these things as society-specific… I tend to think that it’s our society that is wrong on such things (under influence of modernism, ultra feminism, etc). I agree with Scripture that women shouldn’t teach in Church and have authority like that over men, I’m personally fine with that, because I think women aren’t lesser than men but just different if that’s all that St Thomas is saying, then no problem. Whether this refers to other forms of teaching or not, is not very clear from the text, we can see examples of female Saints who have taught (in appropriate ways) - which suggests that teaching children in a school should be okay. Like I said there are forms of teaching that I wouldn’t be comfortable with, and some other ones (like giving a homily during Mass) are simply not allowed. But I’ll pray about the question regarding teaching in school and I’ll talk to a priest

 

[Joannm]

St Thomas also believed life in the womb didn’t begin until quickening (movement was felt) and he had doubts about the Immaculate Conception. So he could be wroing about women teaching as well. Yes he was one of the greatest theologians of all time, but that doesn’t make everyting he says dogma.

If you feel called to teach, by all means teach. The world needs good teachers, women as well as men.

 

[LemonAndLime]

St Thomas also believed life in the womb didn’t begin until quickening (movement was felt) and he had doubts about the Immaculate Conception. So he could be wroing about women teaching as well. Yes he was one of the greatest theologians of all time, but that doesn’t make everyting he says dogma.

If you feel called to teach, by all means teach. The world needs good teachers, women as well as men.

He also believed that when men… well… they insert into the womb a small, but perfectly formed baby which the woman grows.

But then again, he didn’t claim to be a scientist.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

As you can tell from my post I assumed you were talking about teaching Catholic doctrine in the Church.

Regarding occupations of women in general, I would recommend taking a look at G.K. Chesterton’s What’s Wrong With the World.

Basically, a central part of Chesterton’s conclusion on the subject of women is that humanity has for practically all of history and in practically all cultures divided itself into a specialist gender and a generalist gender. He doesn’t speculate as to whether something biologically inherent in the sexes accounts for this or just the accumulated wisdom of countless generations, be he believes humanity is benefited by only one half of it specializing and engaging in narrow pursuits outside the home, while the other half remains more of a generalist, more of a Jack-Of-All-Trades (or Jill-Of-All-Trades, rather). Among the many points he brings up in this connection is the fact that young children don’t need to be taught any one specific subject in depth so much as taught a little bit about a thousand subjects.

Chesterton singles out secretary work as an occupation in which he thinks women should not be employed, for the very same reason they were so good at it and so often employed in it even in his time: women’s greater tendency towards viewing authority as personal rather than legal. He also points out, if I recall, the hypocrisy of those who sent women to slave away in factories and called it freedom.

Anyway, while the vocations of wife and mother probably have great relevancy for any woman’s vocation (though ideas like spiritual motherhood), throughout its history there have been other vocations for women, including active ones, which the Church has encouraged and even canonized members of, as you’ve pointed out. In these active vocations in the world the tasks of educating young children and caring for the sick and infirm are the ones that stand out most immediately in my mind as quite compatible with femininity. I highly doubt Aquinas meant that women should not teach at all, not even secular things to small children, since this after all is what every mother does.

I think Aquinas had the kind of unthinking/automatic contempt for women that was typical for his era. That it was so taken for granted in that place and time that women were inferior that most men (including him) didn’t really question or even think about it as people in the modern era have.

Based on what I have read of Chesterton regarding women, I believe he suffered from the same condition to a lesser extent.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

yes, it does

haha it’s true I can be scrupulous.

I think it’s just how my mind works, I generally don’t think of these things as society-specific… I tend to think that it’s our society that is wrong on such things (under influence of modernism, ultra feminism, etc). I agree with Scripture that women shouldn’t teach in Church and have authority like that over men, I’m personally fine with that, because I think women aren’t lesser than men but just different if that’s all that St Thomas is saying, then no problem. Whether this refers to other forms of teaching or not, is not very clear from the text, we can see examples of female Saints who have taught (in appropriate ways) - which suggests that teaching children in a school should be okay. Like I said there are forms of teaching that I wouldn’t be comfortable with, and some other ones (like giving a homily during Mass) are simply not allowed. But I’ll pray about the question regarding teaching in school and I’ll talk to a priest

You need to keep in mind that a lot of Church Fathers and saints actually **did believe **women were inferior (at least that’s the most logical conclusion based on their writing) and that doubtless influenced the other things that they had to say about women.

 

[JReducation]

I read a quote by St Thomas Aquinas, I think from the Summa, saying that women should not teach publically, only privately.

Does anyone know, was he referring to women teaching in the Church, or teaching in general? can women be school teachers and teach little kids? etc.

Please I’m not looking for debate, I’m just wondering what he meant.

thank you!

On that point, it’s better to go with his superior. Ninety-five percent of Dominican women religious are teachers, college professors and seminary professors. Our Holy Father St. Dominic encouraged it. Since Dominic was the superior, he wins out.

Aquinas was not at his best in social teachings or Mariology.

What can I tell you.

 

[JReducation]

St Thomas also believed life in the womb didn’t begin until quickening (movement was felt) and he had doubts about the Immaculate Conception. So he could be wroing about women teaching as well. Yes he was one of the greatest theologians of all time, but that doesn’t make everyting he says dogma.

If you feel called to teach, by all means teach. The world needs good teachers, women as well as men.

Many people take Aquinas to be the foremost authority in all things. Aquinas was never pope. Was not infallible. And the Church herself does not use everything that Aquinas wrote or believed. Much of it sits on shelves.

He was one of the brightest minds in Church history, bur he is not the beginning or the end of theological thought. He has competition in Augustine and Bonaventure. Today, I would throw in Pope Benedict XVI who has written on almost everything one can think of. He argues with Aquinas on some points.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF