St.Thomas Christians (Nasranis) : Historical Documentaries

[Thomas48]

For those of you who are interested, I’ve posted links to a Historical Documentary on the St. Thomas Christians of India. I found the videos very informative and interesting, they cover the history, traditions, and loads of facts on the St. Thomas Christians. The documentary includes the Marthoma Church, Syro Malabar Church, Syro Malanakara Church, Jacobite-Malankara Orthodox Church, and the Knanaya Community. I’ve also posted a separate documentary that goes more in depth on the Knanaya Community, for those of you who would like to learn more, It is in the Malayalam language but is still a good watch.

**History of Malankara Marthoma Christians **

Part 1: youtube.com/watch?v=6kBkba7Tr8g
Part 2: youtube.com/watch?v=Q1Y-8FUNkbg
Part 3: youtube.com/watch?v=NVzG2Te7iz8
Part 4: youtube.com/watch?v=_ayZw-pHu_o
part 5: youtube.com/watch?v=7E4v2DYrbig

Knanaya Christian Documenary
youtube.com/watch?v=tgiKGufjJLk

 

[Zekariya]

For those of you who are interested, I’ve posted links to a Historical Documentary on the St. Thomas Christians of India. I found the videos very informative and interesting, they cover the history, traditions, and loads of facts on the St. Thomas Christians. The documentary includes the Marthoma Church, Syro Malabar Church, Syro Malanakara Church, Jacobite-Malankara Orthodox Church, and the Knanaya Community. I’ve also posted a separate documentary that goes more in depth on the Knanaya Community, for those of you who would like to learn more, It is in the Malayalam language but is still a good watch.

**History of Malankara Marthoma Christians **

Part 1: youtube.com/watch?v=6kBkba7Tr8g
Part 2: youtube.com/watch?v=Q1Y-8FUNkbg
Part 3: youtube.com/watch?v=NVzG2Te7iz8
Part 4: youtube.com/watch?v=_ayZw-pHu_o
part 5: youtube.com/watch?v=7E4v2DYrbig

Knanaya Christian Documenary
youtube.com/watch?v=tgiKGufjJLk

Thanks for sharing this! I am watching it now.

 

[SyroMalankara]

For those of you who are interested, I’ve posted links to a Historical Documentary on the St. Thomas Christians of India. I found the videos very informative and interesting, they cover the history, traditions, and loads of facts on the St. Thomas Christians. The documentary includes the Marthoma Church, Syro Malabar Church, Syro Malanakara Church, Jacobite-Malankara Orthodox Church, and the Knanaya Community. I’ve also posted a separate documentary that goes more in depth on the Knanaya Community, for those of you who would like to learn more, It is in the Malayalam language but is still a good watch.

**History of Malankara Marthoma Christians **

Part 1: youtube.com/watch?v=6kBkba7Tr8g
Part 2: youtube.com/watch?v=Q1Y-8FUNkbg
Part 3: youtube.com/watch?v=NVzG2Te7iz8
Part 4: youtube.com/watch?v=_ayZw-pHu_o
part 5: youtube.com/watch?v=7E4v2DYrbig

Knanaya Christian Documenary
youtube.com/watch?v=tgiKGufjJLk

Which version does it promote? As you know, each group tends to lean in favor of their own and slant against the rest. The protestants actually leave huge gaps and take liberties with certain facts to bolster their claims, even though they are not verifiable and sometimes even entirely contradictory to what really went on.

 

[rohan_mathew]

Dear Syromalankara
What do you say about Nilakkal?
I found that a cross was taken from nilakkal was hidden in the forest under soil. Immediately the cross dispappeared from there by Hindus.What was the shape of that cross?

Our old fathers said that or ancestors were in nilakkal and due to the disturbance from certain kinds of birds, our fathers hd to quit the place centuries ago. What was that period?

Nilakkal church is known as ‘arappally’. In comparison with the word ‘aramana’ (bishop’s palace), ‘arappally’ can be meant ‘head church’. Was nilakkal headquarters of syrian chrisitans of kerala or india centuries before?

I also found that the famous hindu pilgrimage center ‘Sabarimala’ inside the forest got its name from bishop Mor Sabor. Is it right? Is it the Sabarimal hill, the tomb of bishop Sabor?

pazhayathu.blogspot.ie/2009/12/history-sabari-mala-vs-sabor-mala-and.html

 

[Thomas48]

Which version does it promote? As you know, each group tends to lean in favor of their own and slant against the rest. The protestants actually leave huge gaps and take liberties with certain facts to bolster their claims, even though they are not verifiable and sometimes even entirely contradictory to what really went on.

In general the Documentary doesn’t seem to take sides when it comes to conflicts instead it just explains the conflicts that arose. I think this documentary is pretty fair to the whole Nasrani Community.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Just one issue right off the bat. The video claims that the Koonan Cross Oath was against the Papacy. This is disputed. Some scholars say the oath was against the Portuguese, especially the Jesuits and Bishop Garcia. The non-Catholic bodies claim the oath was against the Pope, but historically this cannot be sustained. The Anglican bishop of Tamil Nadu, Stephen Neill, who would have good reason to write propaganda against the Papacy, wrote the history of Christianity in India and specifically denied that the oath was against the Papacy. Instead the people said they would remain with the Pope should he send them another more fair bishop. The Pope replaced the Jesuits with the Carmelites and almost 3/4rd of the communities returned to union with the Pope (84 out of the 116).

 

[SyroMalankara]

Just in the first link I would dispute the position the narrative is taking, saying that the St. Thomas Christians revolted against the Pope. This is highly disputed.

 

[J_Peterson]

Thank you for this. I find them very interesting and would like to know more. I’ll try and watch later.

 

[Peter_J]

Just in the first link I would dispute the position the narrative is taking, saying that the St. Thomas Christians revolted against the Pope. This is highly disputed.

I haven’t watched the video (yet), but would you elaborate on that?

 

[Thomas48]

I believe SyroMalankara is bringing up the disputed point of the St. Thomas Christians revolting against the Pope during the Leaning Cross Oath in 1653, where some of the St. Thomas Christians refused to accept Catholicism which was being forced upon them by the Portuguese Latin Catholics and wished to continue their Eastern Practices.

 

[daffyjoe]

Thomas48,
Good video promotions, especially boosting of a non recognised group named knanaya christians. One thing you forgotted to narrate, “Some syrian christians revolted against pope”. It is untrue. “They said they will not accept portugeese bishops”. Anyway Good but failed attempt to promote a failed group such as Klu Klux Klan.ie, southists. I surprise why you are still not banned from the forums.

 

[Thomas48]

Thomas48,
Good video promotions, especially boosting of a non recognised group named knanaya christians. One thing you forgotted to narrate, “Some syrian christians revolted against pope”. It is untrue. “They said they will not accept portugeese bishops”. Anyway Good but failed attempt to promote a failed group such as Klu Klux Klan.ie, southists. I surprise why you are still not banned from the forums.

That is your opinion and you may keep it.

 

[Aramis]

Thomas48,
Good video promotions, especially boosting of a non recognised group named knanaya christians. One thing you forgotted to narrate, “Some syrian christians revolted against pope”. It is untrue. “They said they will not accept portugeese bishops”. Anyway Good but failed attempt to promote a failed group such as Klu Klux Klan.ie, southists. I surprise why you are still not banned from the forums.

Refusing to accept the appointed bishops is a revolt against the pope’s authority.

Only Patriarchal churches have the right to internally selected bishops.
For other churches sui iuris, that’s a privilege, not a right.
For non-canonical organizations and/or cultural groups, it’s not even a privilege.

 

[Peter_J]

Anyway Good but failed attempt to promote a failed group such as Klu Klux Klan.ie, southists.

Let’s not escalate things too much here … Where I come from, comparing someone to the KKK is considered pretty extreme rhetoric.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Refusing to accept the appointed bishops is a revolt against the pope’s authority.

Only Patriarchal churches have the right to internally selected bishops.
For other churches sui iuris, that’s a privilege, not a right.
For non-canonical organizations and/or cultural groups, it’s not even a privilege.

Actually, In Portuguese territory it was the KING not the Pope who appointed Bishops. The Pope had right of veto, but this would result in a spat with the king, who usually appointed an ally. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padroado
The Pope at the time (1600s) recognized the “Padroado” agreements that the Portuguese had with Spain, at the same time ecclesiastical communion was made between the Chaldean Patriarch - who had rightful preeminent authority for the St. Thomas Christians in India - and the Pope of Rome. When pressed, the Pope took the side of the Chaldean Patriarch, but the Portuguese authorities, and all the imperial forces would NOT allow the Patriarch on land, he was sent back to Rome by ship and died on the way or soon after arriving. The St. Thomas Christians thought he was drowned by the authorities and revolted.

 

[daffyjoe]

Let’s not escalate things too much here … Where I come from, comparing someone to the KKK is considered pretty extreme rhetoric.

---

• Peter Jericho

Hello peter,
Guess you don’t know history of syrian christians and the people who calls themself syrian/st.Thomas christians like Thomas48 where no history of them are recorded by the catholic church as well as any historians.
regards
Jo

 

[Thomas48]

Hello peter,
Guess you don’t know history of syrian christians and the people who calls themself syrian/st.Thomas christians like Thomas48 where no history of them are recorded by the catholic church as well as any historians.
regards
Jo

Can I ask you dear friend, what are you intentions on the Catholic Answers Forums? You have repeatedly insulted me and Knanaya Christians without base to your attribution. Why do you have so much vengeance towards my people? Every post you have made on this site has to do with insulting Knanayas. I would appreciate it if you laid off and found something better to do.

Also since St. Thomas Christians are not endogamous, anyone can become one. So since Knanayas Catholics are apart of the Syro Malabar Church which is for a fact a St. Thomas Christians Church would we not be considered St. Thomas Christians as well? There are no “original” St. Thomas Christians because they have evangelized for centuries. So a Knanaya and even some one who converted to the Syro Malabar Church or one of the St. Thomas Christian Churches this minute, can be considered a St. Thomas Christian.

P.S, Please do learn your general Human Geography, Knanaya history like many ancient ethnic community histories of this world were recorded orally. Most old communities did not have the custom of writing down there histories, they were passed on by song and custom. Our history has been passed down in a tradition of numerous varieties of songs, from the songs of churches to wedding songs. Tho there is little written history on the Knanaya people a few examples I can provide.

**Written Records of Knanaya Christians **

1. Southist Historical Document (1770)

• Written in Malayalam and Syriac and secured by Syriac Orthodox Bishop Gavril. It is secured in the Library of the University of Leyden.

1. Knanaya were known as Ancharapallikar in the 17th/18th Century meaning the owners of five and half churches.
2. Portuguese Bishop Francis Roz “Report on Serra” (1603-1604)

• Northist and Southist have Many Qurrels
• Southist own seperate churches
• Southist do not accept converts
• Southist do not allow other communities to enter there churches.
• Notes that Northist are descended from St. Thomas and those he converted and Southist from Thomas of Cana and his people.
• Southist are mostly located in the villages of Udayemperur, Kaduthuruthy, and Kottayam.
• Both groups stayed away from each other and owned separate churches.

1. Portuguese Observer Gouvea (1604)

• Division among the Northist and Southist is due to Northist being descended from St. Thomas and those he converted and Southist being descended from Thomas of Cana and his people. The two communities have much loathe for each other and a mutual dislike.

1. Portuguese Observer Monserrate ( 1579)

• Northist Christians lived on the North side of the river and Southist Christians on the South side.
• One group descends from St. Thomas and the other group from Thomas of Cana.
• Notes the customs of Southist Christians to differ from that other Northist.

1. Portuguese Bishop Alexio Menezes (1593)

• Orders Northist and Southist Christians to share Churches
• Blood shed and feud resumes
• Order revoked due to increased enmity.

Sources

• Mundadan- ” Saint Thomas Christians 1498-1552″
• Mundadan-” Sixteenth Century Traditions of Saint Thomas Christians”
• Schurhammer ( 1934)
• Nedugant – “ Syond of Diamper Revisited”, Rome
• Mingana -“Early Spread of Christianity in India”
• Bishop Francis Roz Report- British Museum Manuscript BS Add MS 9853 titled “Report from Serra ( 1603/1604)” – Relacao da Serra – by the first latin prelate of Angamali.
• Dr. Silva Rego – “ Antonio da, Historia das Missoes do padroado Portugues do Oriente, India Vol I ( 1500-1542)”
• Anonio da- “Documentacao para a Historia da Missoes do Padroado Portugues do Oriente”, India 12 Volumes ( 1947)
• Wicki Joseph SJ- “ Documenta Indica “ 7 Volumes, Rome ( 1948)
• Schurhammer SJ “ Franz Xaver, Sein Leben und seine Zeit” “ Die Zeitgenesischen Quellen zur Geschichte “ “ Epistolae S Francisci Xaverii” “ Historia seraphica da Ordem dos Frades Menores des