State of the Catholic Church in America

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Please take a look at this. How do we address Catholics like this? I am very worried and pray often for these people.

Some of there beliefs and their persistance to change the Church, is this grounds for excommunication?

care2.com/c2c/group/progressivecatholics
Groups Description: This is a group for Catholics who love being Catholic but understand the need for questioning and change within the Church. Do you have trouble with some Catholic doctrine like birth control, homosexuality, papal infallibity? Then this group is for you!
 
These people are in first-degree heresy which is defined as:

Pertinacious adhesion to a doctrine contradictory to a point of faith clearly defined by the Church is heresy pure and simple, heresy in the first degree.

The spirit which animates the dealings of the Church with heresy and heretics is one of extreme severity. St. Paul writes to Titus: “A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid: knowing that he, that is such a one, is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment” (Tit., iii, 10-11). This early piece of legislation reproduces the still earlier teaching of Christ: “And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and the publican” (Matthew 18:17); it also inspires all subsequent anti-heretical legislation. The sentence on the obstinate heretic is invariably excommunication. He is separated from the company of the faithful, delivered up “to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 5:5).

If they call themselves Roman Catholic, they’re in heresy, otherwise they’re protestants. Not much middle ground here.

There is a shortage of vocations to the priesthood in this country, but no shortage of vocations to the papacy.
 
Do you have trouble with some Catholic doctrine like birth control, homosexuality, papal infallibity? Then this group is for you

I think this should read “Do you have trouble with Morality, Family values and authority?” Then that group is for you.
 
Ian
Thank you so much for your help. Especially for the biblical references.

I have commented to them many times that there are many Protestant groups which one can choose it just depends on what you want to have open to you (birth control, divorce, no confession, etc.).

I often wonder if Vatican II opened up the doors to this type of heresy. Do not get me wrong. I love much what comes out of Vatican II but sometimes makes me wonder.

Sometimes I wonder most act in a liberal fashion to spare themselves from ridicule and questioning by Protestants. I only tell them open your bible and one can defend Christ’s Church easily.
 
How do we stop this? I fear for these people’s salvation.
 
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josephdavid:
How do we stop this? I fear for these people’s salvation.
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You mean individually or as a group? Either way, we should show them in the Catechism and other Church documents where they are wrong, but even that probably would make no difference. They have adopted the “spirit of the age” and have confused it with true justice and mercy. Only the Holy Spirit can open their eyes, which is why we must continue to pray for them.

If you are asking if they will have a lasting effect on the Church, the answer is no. Their movement is dying out in the Church because the young people aren’t buying into their agenda. This truly terrifies them, which is why they are being so vocal. They think they can make the Church do what they want the way the hippies brought down the Nixon administration. But the Church has one thing no earthly government has–the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit. So, these people’s cause is floundering and will die out with them, poor things.
 
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josephdavid:
care2.com/c2c/group/progressivecatholics
Groups Description: This is a group for Catholics who love being Catholic but understand the need for questioning and change within the Church. Do you have trouble with some Catholic doctrine like birth control, homosexuality, papal infallibity? Then this group is for you!
Click to expand...
Heretical liberalism, just like many in Ireland. here
 
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josephdavid:
I often wonder if Vatican II opened up the doors to this type of heresy. Do not get me wrong. I love much what comes out of Vatican II but sometimes makes me wonder.
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It’s not Vatican II but ignorance of what it really says that leads to stuffl like this. Most people are not aware of how little Vatican II actually changes. They just assume that everything is now more “relaxed” and that because some things are different that everything can be different. Whether this is because of lack of catechesis, or unwillingness to listen when these things are explained to them depends on the person in question.
 
This is the most recent respone I received from these people:

Joseph…Thomas Aquinas, a very respected doctor of the church and saint said that if one does not follow one’s conscience, one is sinning, even if one’s conscience tells him to go against the teachings of the church. So if I were to follow Church teachings, some of which go against my conscience I would be sinning!

I am trying to find this comment and read more into it. I am sure there is more to this than what they are quoting.
 
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josephdavid:
This is the most recent respone I received from these people:

Joseph…Thomas Aquinas, a very respected doctor of the church and saint said that if one does not follow one’s conscience, one is sinning, even if one’s conscience tells him to go against the teachings of the church. So if I were to follow Church teachings, some of which go against my conscience I would be sinning!

I am trying to find this comment and read more into it. I am sure there is more to this than what they are quoting.
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If this quote is accurate, then it sounds like Thomas was a pretty smart guy.
 
“progressive Catholics”…hmmmmm.

Aren’t we all progressive Catholics? Our goal is to progress to a deeper and deeper love of Christ. Our method of achieving this is to be “obedient Catholics”.

“progressive Catholic” = “obedient Catholic”
 
With in this group I had mentioned and plus you read in media every day how certain “Catholic But’s” are saying we should have married priests, allow contraceptives, homosexual sex not a sin, etc.

How can you call yourself Catholic if you go against the teachings of Christ?

Personally it is hypocritical to say your Catholic and support these issues. Your are either Catholic or not? Am I being too closed minded on this?
 
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josephdavid:
With in this group I had mentioned and plus you read in media every day how certain “Catholic But’s” are saying we should have married priests, allow contraceptives, homosexual sex not a sin, etc.

How can you call yourself Catholic if you go against the teachings of Christ?

Personally it is hypocritical to say your Catholic and support these issues. Your are either Catholic or not? Am I being too closed minded on this?
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I’m not a biblical scholar, so maybe I missed something. Where does Christ teach against married priests, allowing contraceptives, and homosexual sex? BTW, I’m being semi-sarcastic here. I realize all currently go against church teachings, but I’m pretty sure, Christ didn’t actually preach against any of those things.
 
I’m not a biblical scholar, so maybe I missed something. Where does Christ teach against married priests, allowing contraceptives, and homosexual sex? BTW, I’m being semi-sarcastic here. I realize all currently go against church teachings, but I’m pretty sure, Christ didn’t actually preach against any of those things.

Where did Christ ever RELAX the moral teachings in force when he was alive on earth? Homosexual activity was considered an abomination and so far beyond the pale that it would have been pointless for him to bring it up. On married priests, that is a discipline which can change, but artificial contraception is a divine law stemming from OT teaching on not deliberately wasting the reproductive seed. And the apostles, inspired by the Holy Spirit, did explicitly condemn sexual immorality, including of the homosexual sort.

Jaypeeto3
 
Jaypeeto3 said:
I’m not a biblical scholar, so maybe I missed something. Where does Christ teach against married priests, allowing contraceptives, and homosexual sex? BTW, I’m being semi-sarcastic here. I realize all currently go against church teachings, but I’m pretty sure, Christ didn’t actually preach against any of those things.

Where did Christ ever RELAX the moral teachings in force when he was alive on earth? Homosexual activity was considered an abomination and so far beyond the pale that it would have been pointless for him to bring it up. On married priests, that is a discipline which can change, but artificial contraception is a divine law stemming from OT teaching on not deliberately wasting the reproductive seed. And the apostles, inspired by the Holy Spirit, did explicitly condemn sexual immorality, including of the homosexual sort.

Jaypeeto3
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Ha! I figured I’d get some pointed responses. Glad to see some folks are awake out there. The poster before you gave some web links to refute what I said. However, in the links that pertain to the 4 gospels, they still do not prove that Christ directly taught against those issues. Yes, in other areas of the bible, they are mentioned.

I’m not trying to start a firestorm here, and yes, I know the church is currently is against all those issues. My point was that Christ didn’t directly teach against any of those, as the person I quoted suggested.
 
Actually, since Christ is and always has been GOD, and since God inspired the Old Testament writers (as well as the New) to condemn certain sins under the strongest possible terms, it is really correct to say that Christ actually DID address these issues in Scripture.
God bless,
Jaypeeto3
 
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Jaypeeto3:
Actually, since Christ is and always has been GOD, and since God inspired the Old Testament writers (as well as the New) to condemn certain sins under the strongest possible terms, it is really correct to say that Christ actually DID address these issues in Scripture.
God bless,
Jaypeeto3
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Thank you. This is a point I tried to make! Remember God is one of three (Father, Son and Holy Sprit)
 
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josephdavid:
Please take a look at this. How do we address Catholics like this? I am very worried and pray often for these people.

Some of there beliefs and their persistance to change the Church, is this grounds for excommunication?

care2.com/c2c/group/progressivecatholics
Groups Description: This is a group for Catholics who love being Catholic but understand the need for questioning and change within the Church. Do you have trouble with some Catholic doctrine like birth control, homosexuality, papal infallibity? Then this group is for you!
Click to expand...
The first way we address them is to acknowledge they are not Catholics at all-they have chosen to seperate themselves from the Church.
 
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Jaypeeto3:
Actually, since Christ is and always has been GOD, and since God inspired the Old Testament writers (as well as the New) to condemn certain sins under the strongest possible terms, it is really correct to say that Christ actually DID address these issues in Scripture.
God bless,
Jaypeeto3
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OK, I surrender. From that point of view, I suppose you are correct.
 
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