Stealing? Mortal Sin? Paranoid?

[jmfiore]

I work in a facility that caters to clients and we have a supply room that stores soda for the clients. We also have a cafe that sells the same soda on another level. I wanted one (soda) so I went to the suplly room and got one. Now I have seen people (other employees) do this before without blinking an eye and I have myself in the past. But now that I am more into my faith and religion I got concerned that perhaps that I am stealing and here’s why:

Though no one has never said I should not take those sodas, they are meant for the clients… but like I had stated other employees have taken them before.

We have a place to buy sodas up to a certain time.

No one has ever said anything to me before when I had done it.

But when I took it I placed it in my pocket instead of holding it in my hand until I walked back to my work station as if trying to conceal it. Then when I saw someone at my work station I went into another room and walked back out towards my work station as if I had gotten the soda there – making the person believe (if they had paid attention) that I had gotten the soda from the other room and not the supply room.

I drank most of it but then I felt bad and asked another employee if taking that soda was something I wasn’t supposed to do and they said well it depends on who you ask.

I dumped the rest out and I plan on replacing the one I took with one I’ll buy in the cafe later.

But did I steal?
And did I commit a mortal sin, because I purposely placed it in my pocket and pretended to get it from somewhere else… though it was almost as if I was on auto pilot when I had but I thought to myself why would I have done those things if I didn’t believe deep down what I was doing was wrong so does that make me know it was wrong? Then I kept and drank most of it and still did what I did so is that with full knowledge?

I said an act of contrition and prayed to God that I wouldn’t take from there again and asked forgiveness, but now I (believe) can’t receive communion tomorrow and will confess on Sat.

Or am I just being paranoid? Thoughts?

Thank you!

 

[Blessedwithfive]

Sin yes, mortal, no. Not grave matter.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

It’s not entirely paranoid, but it may not exactly be a mortal sin.

You are in an environment where this goes on routinely and nobody turns a head.

Do you go along with it, pretend to be above it when you aren’t, or just go buy your own soda?

If you’re not sure it’s stealing then you could take it two ways. One is that maybe others “know something you don’t” but can be hollow. The part about hiding it is key afa I’m concerned.

Why did you hide it? Did you think others would see that you are “in the same boat” and “do the same things” as they do and therefore you are “stooping to their level” or something?

That could get complicated because on the one hand you don’t want to exalt yourself “see I am better than you” but you don’t really want to “join the club” and for crying out loud you don’t want to be the “vigilante that rats them out” and honestly I don’t know that it is your place to do so.

First question I’d ask is, are there bosses around that also do this? Do others seem to be sneaky? You could say yeah well we all know it’s wrong but it’s a norm. And maybe it’s accepted by people who are accountable for that money.

Personally I’d suggest if you want to look like you bought it on the other level, then don’t play some game. Just go buy it. Now if it were the other way around, like you actually bought it but pretended you didn’t so as not to be “that guy” who is “better than them” that could really get twisted around. Truly the “devil in the details” can be the problem. Not what I do but the madness accompanying the confusion over whether and how to do it.

My advice? Don’t be a phony. If you’re going to buy one, then buy it and do it like it’s no big deal. Do others buy sometimes? Do they buy when bosses are around but storeroom when they aren’t? If that’s the case you have your answer. Don’t do it but please don’t rat them out or feel you have “risen above” them because that will work its way into your presentation to them and they will feel put down.

Some will say hey tell a manager and if it’s wrong they should put a stop to it. I say not so fast. In a work environment, you can influence the culture but you can’t control it.

If you are afraid to ask a manager because you either don’t want to hear the answer or don’t want to get the others in trouble and make them all hate you (which is a salient issue to a workplace culture) and then you know somehow they will wish you will “get yours” and they will be wary of what they say to you, etc. Some say well golly that’s their problem and I say maybe so maybe not.

The last question is whether some others buy.

I’m assuming there is no clear company policy on it.

To me it seems you are getting enough concern that the money is a minor issue. You behavior amid others is. When you did the act of “just bought this” was it more to save the money, or to have the experience of getting away with something.

Personally, I’d advise just don’t do it. Enjoy having gotten away with it, let it go, and refrain from doing it again.

As far as mortal sin and confessing it, I would ask whether you were really confused or in you heart you really felt is was wrong (even though in fact you don’t know because you are afraid to ask for social reasons like incriminating others) then don’t lie to yourself. Just admit, “hey I want to try this too” and get it out of your system, and you’ve done that. Now just stop. Until you know or at least have good reason to believe it’s Not a Problem, just buy your drink and move on. If the money is a problem, I’m hoping they have a water fountain. It’s better for you anyway.

So if you continue thinking it’s maybe wrong but maybe not but probably but who know but blah blah blah … then I’d say you’re getting into muddy waters because you are acting against your “inner voice” which must may be the Living Water, and the Helper that Jesus told us about. If you aren’t happy with your behavior and do it anyway, that’s a problem.

Mortal sin requires grave matter, being fully informed, and giving free consent. This may not be grave matter, but if you’re acting according to your conscience then really who cares if it’s grave matter?

Personally I love to discuss things with my pastor and he helps me see a perspective that can clarify what seems to be splitting hairs. So if I don’t really know whether something is wrong, I’d just have a conversation with him rather than in the booth, where I can discuss it interactively and he can help guide your thinking. For me that’s more helpful than to try to resolve and understand an issue withing the format of confession. So if you just talk to him about it and lay it out like you have here, he might bring clarity to it, and at that time you may decide you have something to confess.

So you get your “acting sneaky” fix, which in the future helps you understand better when others are doing wrong, get through that and then just buy the thing because once you have tasted it, you see it gives you anxiety. It’s a bit exciting maybe, but at some point you say hey. It isn’t worth the price of this to feel guilty every time, and then you will lose the desire to do it.

I’m assuming that others sometimes buy it and not get it from the storeroom.

But don’t just go ask uninformed people, and try to believe only those ones who tell the story you want to here. Because that thinking could expand to matters of greater impact and really it’ just looking for an excuse to do wrong and where is the boundary?

 

[GLam8833]

Our consciences have been given to us when
our first parents sinned…The Knowledge of
Good and Evil. We must let it be our Guide
in our conduct and NOT sin against our
“gut feelings” they are there to warn us not
to sin mortally and thus kill grace in our souls.
So, consult a priest as to what to do to
atone for the wrong and DON’T do it again
as far as you are able to control yourself,
and repent and confess if you fall again!
Remember this verse from God’s word to
Cain: “If you do well, wouldn’t your counte-
nance be lifted up? But if you do not do
well, sin is crouching at your door, it’s
desire is to have you, but you must master
it” Gen. 4:7

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Three particular psychological experiments stand out from the standpoint of conformity and evil. First we have the Asch experiments, which showed how much people will give an answer they know is wrong just because others do. Asch broke it into two types of conformity – informational and normative. Informational is when you know you believe one thing, but convince yourself you must be wrong because nobody else sees it your way. Normative is when you know you are right and the others are wrong, but you don’t say it because you don’t want to make waves. Some were more influenced by one, but not the other.

Next is the infamous Stanley Milgram experiment, where he set up a mock lab where subjects would pretend to play “teacher” and administer electric shocks for wrong answers to the point where they think they may have killed the subject. They do it because they are expected to, by the role they are playing. This stunned the psychological community because it was widely predicted that nobody would actually do that. But they were wrong; many did and some without batting an eye. Just, OK wrong answer increase the voltage click click.

Then to top them all, Phil Zimbardo conducted the Stanford Prison Experiment in 1971, which was made into a movie which will be released NEXT WEEK! He set up a mock prison and assigned students to play guards or prisoners, and within days is was completely out of control and brought out a dark side of human nature nobody would have guessed.

An interview with his Christina Maslach, his wife who was then is girlfriend, shows they did tweak one important detail for the movie. Apparently they show him looking at the videos and deciding to stop the experiment… in real life there was no way he was about to stop it because it was so amazingly brutal and he got sucked into the drama until she told him stuff like “I don’t know you anymore” so he stopped the experiment.

Stanley Milgram actually called him and thanked him for taking the spotlight off him as having now performed the most unethical experiment ever.

So I kicked around some stuff you can pick up on and take wherever the Spirit will have you take it.

Asch Conformity Experiment

Milgram experiment - Jeroen Busscher

Derren Brown recreation – wouldn’t get by an ethics board but that’s Derren Brown; he has a TV show that he does mind tricks so he didn’t go through a review board.

Milgram Experiment (Derren Brown)

And finally the grandaddy of them all, the Stanford Prison Experiment in 1971. It will actually come out as a movie on July 17, apparently with one detail changed; the experiemter Zimbardo got so caught up in it, that he was not about to stop the experiment just because he saw how wrong it was going, until his girlfriend Christina Maslach, now his wife, coerced him to stop it.

The Stanford Prison Experiment - Official Trailer I HD I IFC Films

 

[Used2beSherryG]

definitely stealing and a sin, however not grave matter. As long as you plan to go to confession on Saturday, you could probably receive communion on Friday since it seems to be a venial sin only. Glad your conscience is awakening. coming into close contact with the Lord will awaken your conscience so that you can more closely follow Jesus.

 

[Windmill]

You guys are making this complicated.

I’m a boss, and if an employee comes to me asking for clarification on an issue, I give it. Sometimes bosses don’t know people are confused about an issue. Also, no boss is aware of every issue.

Even better, offer a solution to curb the problem so it is neutralized. Be creative. Maybe they could have a free coffee kiosk, a heavily-discounted soda machine that basically covers it’s own overhead costs, or maybe tell the staff they can have one free drink a day. If the company is seeing severe shrinkage from snitching, then they would come out ahead if they managed inventory while still giving out small perks.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

You guys are making this complicated.

I’m a boss, and if an employee comes to me asking for clarification on an issue, I give it. Sometimes bosses don’t know people are confused about an issue. Also, no boss is aware of every issue.

Even better, offer a solution to curb the problem so it is neutralized. Be creative. Maybe they could have a free coffee kiosk, a heavily-discounted soda machine that basically covers it’s own overhead costs, or maybe tell the staff they can have one free drink a day. If the company is seeing severe shrinkage from snitching, then they would come out ahead if they managed inventory while still giving out small perks.

Thank you. I guess I made it complicated because I worked at a place where it seemed these things were a big deal.

One small company I worked for implemented a solution like yours, and it worked. An employee died and left the company with some money to do something “for the employees.” So one thing they did was to buy a soft drink dispenser in the break room and sell cans for 50 cents. Half went to buy them and half to repay the fund. Once the machine was paid for, they dropped the price to 25 cents and used the rest of the money to install a basketball goal at the edge of the parking lot, and they’d shoot baskets during breaks and the managers would join them. They also had enough to landscape the atrium, which was nice because we could go out there for lunch in nice weather.

I like your answer better than mine.

MS

 

[Beryllos]

You guys are making this complicated.

I’m a boss, and if an employee comes to me asking for clarification on an issue, I give it. Sometimes bosses don’t know people are confused about an issue. Also, no boss is aware of every issue.

Even better, offer a solution to curb the problem so it is neutralized. Be creative. Maybe they could have a free coffee kiosk, a heavily-discounted soda machine that basically covers it’s own overhead costs, or maybe tell the staff they can have one free drink a day. If the company is seeing severe shrinkage from snitching, then they would come out ahead if they managed inventory while still giving out small perks.

Great answer. Sometimes it’s better to cut through the fog and get a straight answer. Also you have reminded us that bosses are human too… a lot of them, anyway. They too have their worries about the workplace, and they understand that they depend on good employee relations.