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deb1
Guest
I’m glad that you posted that.
I wonder why they destroyed the rats before they found out for certain if the embryonic stem cells would change into tumors?
I wonder why they destroyed the rats before they found out for certain if the embryonic stem cells would change into tumors?
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WanderAimlessly
Guest
Because it would interfere with their agenda which is embryonic stem cells at all cost.
The problem with embryonic stem cells is that they are genetically different from the recipient. This cause rejection and mutations (i.e. tumors). Yes, there may be temporary improvement, but it is only temporary.
Adult stem cells, on the other hand, harvested from the recipient have the same genetic structure and will not be considered foreign by the body. Better chance of success there.
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deb1
Guest
It is surprising that I am hearing nothing on the news about this study, but I am hearing a lot about Michael Fox’s television ad asking for embryonic stem cell research.
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BioCatholic
Guest
I really can’t wait until an unnamed Nobel Lauriate discovers how to reign in embryonic stem cells.
Then what? once they figure out how to prevent them from forming tumors, and once they are able to use somatic cell nuclear transfer to clone a stem cell line specific to a patient, the possibilities are limitless. Then what?
adult stem cells will be obsolete.
you have Harvard, MIT, UC Davis, UC Irvine, UC Berkley, many scientists the the UK and South Korea all working on it. It is just a matter of time.
My question is: what are the Conservatives going to do when ESC research is a proven technology, and the UK, South Korea, MIT, Harvard and many private companies are cloning thousands and thousands of embryos for patients?
Even now, there are hundreds of embryos being cloned or created each month by Universities and companies right here in the US. It is unstoppable, even if the Us did ban it, US scientists could go overseas and work outside US jurisdiction.
Then what? once they figure out how to prevent them from forming tumors, and once they are able to use somatic cell nuclear transfer to clone a stem cell line specific to a patient, the possibilities are limitless. Then what?
adult stem cells will be obsolete.
you have Harvard, MIT, UC Davis, UC Irvine, UC Berkley, many scientists the the UK and South Korea all working on it. It is just a matter of time.
My question is: what are the Conservatives going to do when ESC research is a proven technology, and the UK, South Korea, MIT, Harvard and many private companies are cloning thousands and thousands of embryos for patients?
Even now, there are hundreds of embryos being cloned or created each month by Universities and companies right here in the US. It is unstoppable, even if the Us did ban it, US scientists could go overseas and work outside US jurisdiction.
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Rosalinda
Guest
BioCatholic stated:
[sign]I really can’t wait until an unnamed Nobel Lauriate discovers how to reign in embryonic stem cells.[/sign]
Don’t hold your breath BioCatholic. Those ES cells won’t be reigned in for a long time, if ever. One simply has to evaluate the lack of progress and all the frustrations researchers are experiencing with animal models. I mean mice, not primates. It would be far too costly to experiment with monkeys or baboons at this very early stage which is probably why the push is on for cheap and plentiful human life via any number of cloning techniques not a few of which have been developed through I.V.F. Routinely, early blastocysts are split for twinning embryos. Better yet, remove the blastomeres while the embryonic human patients are only a few days old while the stem cells are still totipotent and any number of embryos can be reproduced.
Responsible scientists who have experienced tinkering with ESCR and know firsthand all the drawbacks are now more interested in working with adult stem cells. They lament all the umbilical cord stem cells now discarded as waste when they would be better used to save lives - not tomorrow but today.
Even so, you’re entitled to your opinion however misinformed. Thank you for your contribution.
[sign]I really can’t wait until an unnamed Nobel Lauriate discovers how to reign in embryonic stem cells.[/sign]
Don’t hold your breath BioCatholic. Those ES cells won’t be reigned in for a long time, if ever. One simply has to evaluate the lack of progress and all the frustrations researchers are experiencing with animal models. I mean mice, not primates. It would be far too costly to experiment with monkeys or baboons at this very early stage which is probably why the push is on for cheap and plentiful human life via any number of cloning techniques not a few of which have been developed through I.V.F. Routinely, early blastocysts are split for twinning embryos. Better yet, remove the blastomeres while the embryonic human patients are only a few days old while the stem cells are still totipotent and any number of embryos can be reproduced.
Responsible scientists who have experienced tinkering with ESCR and know firsthand all the drawbacks are now more interested in working with adult stem cells. They lament all the umbilical cord stem cells now discarded as waste when they would be better used to save lives - not tomorrow but today.
Even so, you’re entitled to your opinion however misinformed. Thank you for your contribution.
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BioCatholic
Guest
Uhhhh, I have a Masters in Pharmacology, and did a few weeks drected work in E.R Kandel’s lab, a Nobel Lauriate in Physiology and Medicine in 2000.Even so, you’re entitled to your opinion however misinformed. Thank you for your contribution.
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Rosalinda
Guest
BioCatholic asked:
Still should pigs grow wings, embryonic stem cells prove to be amenable to manipulation, complete control and absolutely predictable with a 100% guarantee of no disastrous side effects, the fact will still remain that the cost to earn that Nobel Prize was too high. No intention, however good, could ever justify having exploited untold millions of embryonic human beings and their mothers to achieve it.
What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose one’s soul?
Then I guess they will deserve a Nobel Prize because they will have understood both the trigger mechanisms responsible for the formation of cancerous tumours and how to cure them.
Still should pigs grow wings, embryonic stem cells prove to be amenable to manipulation, complete control and absolutely predictable with a 100% guarantee of no disastrous side effects, the fact will still remain that the cost to earn that Nobel Prize was too high. No intention, however good, could ever justify having exploited untold millions of embryonic human beings and their mothers to achieve it.
What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose one’s soul?
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BioCatholic
Guest
Wrong. ESC develop into tumors because there is no extracellular signals for them to differentiate into the proper cell type. Normally, they rely on receptors on their cell membrane to be activated, which then carry the signal to the nucleus, and supress the wrong genes, and activate the right ones. growing in a dish lacks the right outside signals, so they divide, and divide, and divide… Essentially, cancer. uncontrolled cell division. people once thought that putting them inside the brain would allow them to recieve the right signals, but it doesnt.
Example: PC12 cells are an immortal cell line that divide like mad. Add Nerve Growth Factor (NGF), and they morph into a neuronal-like state, and do not divide anymore. I have used these cells and HEK293 (human embryonic kidney) cells to do single ion channel recording on NMDA receptors and potassium channels.
once people discover the right molecule that halts uncontrolled division in ESC, they can slow down their division and coax them into the right cell type using tissue matrices.
Cancer has nothing to do with this. “Cancer” is a blanket term for uncontrolled cell division that eats up local resources around healthy cells, causing them to die and make more room for new cancer growth.
you say “when pigs grow wings”, but if i am not mistaken, havent quite a few Nobel Lauriates done things that were said to be impossible, or would take decades to do? so few people get to hear these Lauriates speak, and i have had the priviledge of hearing FOUR. ESC are just waiting for the right person with the right vision to come along. look at the Nobel website, and read the biographies of the people. it will stun you.
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Rosalinda
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BioCatholic claims:[sign]Even now, there are hundreds of embryos being cloned or created each month by Universities and companies right here in the US.[/sign]
Let’s be more precise, please. Are you referring to **human **embryos? If these are indeed human embryos how are they being cloned? Are you stating human embryos have already been created in the U.S. using the cloning technique commonly known as SCNT? Do you know someone who is working with a human embryonic stem cell line derived from SCNT? Your statement was ambiguous. “Once they are able…”
Seriously, BioCatholic, the possibility of tailor made therapies for individual patients means creating a clone for every patient. The possibilities are severely circumscribed by the numbers of donated oocytes that will need to be harvested. We have only to look to the example of Dr.Hwang, the infamous South Korean researcher, who wasted more than 2200 oocytes, and even at that failed to create a single cloned human embryo. We would need embryo farms on an industrial scale to deliver your promise of “personalized medicine.”
Safe to say, the possibilities you envisage are severely limited. Naturally, any (name removed by moderator)ut you have to circumvent this hurdle would, as always, be welcomed.
Let’s be more precise, please. Are you referring to **human **embryos? If these are indeed human embryos how are they being cloned? Are you stating human embryos have already been created in the U.S. using the cloning technique commonly known as SCNT? Do you know someone who is working with a human embryonic stem cell line derived from SCNT? Your statement was ambiguous. “Once they are able…”
somatic cell nuclear transfer to clone a stem cell line specific to a patient, the possibilities are limitless.**/**QUOTE]
Seriously, BioCatholic, the possibility of tailor made therapies for individual patients means creating a clone for every patient. The possibilities are severely circumscribed by the numbers of donated oocytes that will need to be harvested. We have only to look to the example of Dr.Hwang, the infamous South Korean researcher, who wasted more than 2200 oocytes, and even at that failed to create a single cloned human embryo. We would need embryo farms on an industrial scale to deliver your promise of “personalized medicine.”
Safe to say, the possibilities you envisage are severely limited. Naturally, any (name removed by moderator)ut you have to circumvent this hurdle would, as always, be welcomed.
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magician
Guest
"Those ES cells won’t be reigned in for a long time, if ever. "
Someone needs to bet their house and home on this statement. Then it may mean something.
Research into a multitude of disease such as some forms of cancer, multiple sclerosis, Lou Gerig’s disease, etc. has been in the works for years. Should we cease all this research because “cures” have not been found?
I love the certainty of this statement. It makes me think that there’s hope at the tables in Las Vegas.
Someone needs to bet their house and home on this statement. Then it may mean something.
Research into a multitude of disease such as some forms of cancer, multiple sclerosis, Lou Gerig’s disease, etc. has been in the works for years. Should we cease all this research because “cures” have not been found?
I love the certainty of this statement. It makes me think that there’s hope at the tables in Las Vegas.
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Holly3278
Guest
This is not surprising at all. You can’t go against God’s rules and not expect there to be consequences.
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Rosalinda
Guest
Magician says:[sign] Someone needs to bet their house and home on this statement. Then it may mean something.[/sign]
If human ESC’s are indeed the Holy Grail for curing all the diseases which distress mankind then there should be “gold in them there hills.” Why indeed, do stem cell researchers demand unrestricted entitlement to taxpayer dollars, as in the proposed amendment to the constitution of Missouri, when investment managers should be tripping over each other to profit from all the exciting returns? Could it be they understand all too well ESCR is a big gamble
not worth the risk.
If human ESC’s are indeed the Holy Grail for curing all the diseases which distress mankind then there should be “gold in them there hills.” Why indeed, do stem cell researchers demand unrestricted entitlement to taxpayer dollars, as in the proposed amendment to the constitution of Missouri, when investment managers should be tripping over each other to profit from all the exciting returns? Could it be they understand all too well ESCR is a big gamble
not worth the risk.
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Rosalinda
Guest
Your solution suggesting the propensity of ESC’s for cancer formation is restricted to finding the right culture is rather an oversimplification of the problem. While you may eventually happen on the right formula, after a lot of trial and error resulting in countless human deaths, what will you have but a human ES cell in a petri dish which apparently look like the desired cell type destined for the brain, liver or pancreas. So the hESC (human embryonic stem cell) will indeed be a liver cell let’s say because the scientists have so clevery programmed it. With luck, for a time, it will multiply into more liver cells and not replicate into teeth or grow hair inside the liver. The patient is elated and the proud doctor announces him cured. Three years down the road, these hESC’s begin “uncontrolled cell division that eats up local resources around healthy cells, causing them to die and make more room for new cancer growth.”
What happened? Possibly, some undetected reprogramming or imprinting problem in one of the genes as a result of SCNT which only manifested itself later in development. :banghead:
What happened? Possibly, some undetected reprogramming or imprinting problem in one of the genes as a result of SCNT which only manifested itself later in development. :banghead:
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