Stigmata

[NewPerspective]

I was just curious, not for argument’s sake, but for curiosity’s, is stigmata something that people actually experience? Is this a doctrinal belief of the catholic church?

 

[mschrank]

It is something that actually happens to people. Why of course, depends on what kind of reality you believe to be true.

 

[Ary_girl]

From what I have read about Padre Pio, it looks like it is a real phenomenon. I mean, how could a man possibly make himself bleed without driving nails through his hands? I’ve heard someone say that it is all in their head, well, I know that the mind is powerful, but really, can a person induce bleeding just by thinking about it? I don’t think so, but I am not a psychology major.

I had a question as well that I thought might fit under this category, and I am sorry if I am hijacking the thread, but . . .
Jesus could not have been crucified with nails driven through the hand unless he had also been tied up with ropes or something because the nails would have just ripped through his hands. It had to be through the lower arms, near the wrists between the radius and the ulna. So why then are the stigmata found in the palm?

 

[mschrank]

From what I have read about Padre Pio, it looks like it is a real phenomenon. I mean, how could a man possibly make himself bleed without driving nails through his hands? I’ve heard someone say that it is all in their head, well, I know that the mind is powerful, but really, can a person induce bleeding just by thinking about it? I don’t think so, but I am not a psychology major.

I had a question as well that I thought might fit under this category, and I am sorry if I am hijacking the thread, but . . .
Jesus could not have been crucified with nails driven through the hand unless he had also been tied up with ropes or something because the nails would have just ripped through his hands. It had to be through the lower arms, near the wrists between the radius and the ulna. So why then are the stigmata found in the palm?

Maybe they used ropes?

 

[Volodymyr_988]

You have to read what Dr. Zugibe has done in his experiments. He shows that it is entirely possible to be crucified through the hands and feet and not have any tearing. Most of the weight is held by the legs in crucifixion.

crucifixion-shroud.com/

crucifixion-shroud.com/experimental_studies_in_crucifix.htm

The best link is this one:

crucifixion-shroud.com/Barbet.htm

Warning! The above is a bit graphic!

 

[bpbasilphx]

“Stigmata” is not a doctrine.

It’s a phenomenon that must be approached with care, even when not self-inflicted. They are not signs of holiness in and of themselves. Padre Pio was not canonized because he was stigmatized, but for his holy life, proved by post-mortem miracles.

Rose Marie “Little Rose” Ferron was a stigmatic, but she’s not canonized. I will also say there’s something about her biograhy SHE WEARS A CROWN OF THORNS that sounds spiritually unhealthy to me, though I can’t quite put my finger on what it is.

 

[thistle]

From what I have read about Padre Pio, it looks like it is a real phenomenon. I mean, how could a man possibly make himself bleed without driving nails through his hands? I’ve heard someone say that it is all in their head, well, I know that the mind is powerful, but really, can a person induce bleeding just by thinking about it? I don’t think so, but I am not a psychology major.

I had a question as well that I thought might fit under this category, and I am sorry if I am hijacking the thread, but . . .
Jesus could not have been crucified with nails driven through the hand unless he had also been tied up with ropes or something because the nails would have just ripped through his hands. It had to be through the lower arms, near the wrists between the radius and the ulna. So why then are the stigmata found in the palm?

What you say is totally incorrect. See the links posted by Volodymyr and you can get at www.ewtn.com Dr Zugibe’s book called The Crucifixion of Jesus: A Forensic Inquiry.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

. Why of course, depends on what kind of reality you believe to be true.

Please explain what you mean…
Deacon Ed b

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

. Why of course, depends on what kind of reality you believe to be true.

Please explain what you mean…
Deacon Ed B

 

[latinmasslover]

It’s an actual experience but not a doctrine.

 

[mschrank]

Please explain what you mean…
Deacon Ed B

What I meant to say is yes, it really happens. That’s a fact. Despite the best attempts of skeptics to “debunk” it as simple self harm, that is not the case.

The only thing a non-believer can say is it is self-willed. To this, Padre Pio famously said “go to that field and stare at a cow, and see if you grow horns!”.

 

[7rosario]

Jesus could not have been crucified with nails driven through the hand unless he had also been tied up with ropes or something because the nails would have just ripped through his hands. It had to be through the lower arms, near the wrists between the radius and the ulna. So why then are the stigmata found in the palm?

I was wondering about the same thing. The Shroud of Turin indicates that he was crucified on the wrist:

“The Shroud shows us the body of Jesus as it was taken down from the cross and laid in the tomb. So that the sufferings of Jesus as He hung on the cross can be better visualized and understood one must look at the picture of the man on the Shroud. One sees the arms of Jesus crossed one over the other. Looking at the hands one notices that the number of fingers on both hands is four and not five. The reason is that the nail, or spike, was not in the palm but in the wrist.” From: holyface.all-catholic.net/crucifix.html

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

To post # 11, Thank you. I wondered where you were coming from.
Deacon Ed B

 

[Yerusalyim]

Before we get in a big argument about it the writst is part of the hand.

It’s been correctly stated that the Stigmata is not a doctrine of the Church and no one is required to believe it’s real. I accept it as being a real phenomenom.

 

[Ary_girl]

Thanks for the links. After looking through them it does seem a little more probable that Jesus could have been crucified through the palms. It had really puzzled me because even in the Bible, in Luke 24:40 “When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.” It could mean the wrists, but wouldn’t the Bible have said wrist as opposed to hand?"

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

It is my own personal opinion that the wrist or palm issue is not the focus of the purpose of stigmata. I believe stigmata occurs not necessarily for forensic accuracy but because of the stigmatic’s faith and therefore the wounds appear where the stigmatic believes they will. It is to share the Passion of Christ, not to prove it.

 

[thistle]

Thanks for the links. After looking through them it does seem a little more probable that Jesus could have been crucified through the palms. It had really puzzled me because even in the Bible, in Luke 24:40 “When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.” It could mean the wrists, but wouldn’t the Bible have said wrist as opposed to hand?"

The wrist is considered part of the hand so by saying hand the wrist is included.

 

[Miserissima]

I was just curious, not for argument’s sake, but for curiosity’s, is stigmata something that people actually experience? Is this a doctrinal belief of the catholic church?

I’d like to get back to the original question for the moment.

The stigmata not a doctrine of the Church, that is true.

But I recall once hearing that St. Francis of Assisi was the only stigmatist of whom the Chuch has approved such claims of the stigmata. I cannot find the resource for this; perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I would be able to find that information? (Or perhaps that was said because St. Francis was the first noted stigmatist.)

Here is listed the “62 saints or blessed of both sexes…and 20 stigmatics in the nineteenth century.”

 

[thistle]

I’d like to get back to the original question for the moment.

The stigmata not a doctrine of the Church, that is true.

But I recall once hearing that St. Francis of Assisi was the only stigmatist of whom the Chuch has approved such claims of the stigmata. I cannot find the resource for this; perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I would be able to find that information? (Or perhaps that was said because St. Francis was the first noted stigmatist.)

Here is listed the “62 saints or blessed of both sexes…and 20 stigmatics in the nineteenth century.”

Yes you are right. The Church has only formally declared the stigmata of St Francis to be true. However, that does not mean the Church thinks others such as Padre Pio are not true.