Strange Interpretation of the Lord's Prayer

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Hello all,

I am needing some help. I have been active on another forum where neopagans are found. I have been doing some witnessing there, in a loving way, and one of them started a thread with the most bizarre interpreation of the Our Father I have ever heard. Now, since I am not literate in Aramaic, I cannot make a direct refutation of their argument. If there happens to be an aramic scholar out there who can help, I would appreciate any help.

Looking through my archives and came across this tid bit and thought that you might be interested in the read…
~ The Lords Prayer ~
Translations from Aramaic
Biblical scholars disagree about Jesus’ meaning in the view it as “existential,” referring to man’s present experience Lord’s Prayer. Some on earth, while others interpret it as “eschatological,” referring to the coming Kingdom of God. The prayer itself lends to both interpretations, and further questions are posed by the existence of other translations and the problems inherent in the process of translation.
 
It has always been of great interest as to the many different interpretations of the various aspects of what is offered as foundational information about Jesus the Nazarene, what he said and taught, and how translations over the centuries have changed dramatically and sometimes even altered the original meaning of a particular text.
Aramaic manuscripts have been uncovered over the years which provide us with original source documents that can be fairly well authenticated. Beginning with Constantine around 325 AD, dramatic changes began to be infused into interpretations as texts were translated from Aramaic into Greek and then into Latin. In later years there was then translations into old English, and later, more translations into modern English.
The Aramaic Language doesn’t distinguish between means and purpose, inside quality or outside acting. Both are given simultaneously as in “what you’ve sown, so you’ll harvest.” When Jesus relates to the “Kingdom of Heaven” he means the Kingdom inside as well as the Kingdom in the middle or “amongst” us. Also “the next one” is inside and outside as in the whole or Self. The arbitrary borders between spirit, body and soul are nonexistent.
The Aramaic Language has (like the Hebrew and Arabic) different levels of meaning. The words are organized and defined by a poetical system where different meanings of every word are possible. So, every line of the Lords Prayer could be translated into English in many different versions. As an example of how the intent of a passage can be changed, here are some translations of the Lord’s Prayer directly translated from the ancient Aramaic language into modern English.
 
The Prayer To Our Father**
(in the original Aramaic) **
Abwûn**
"Oh Thou, from whom the breath of life comes,**
d’bwaschmâja**
who fills all realms of sound, light and vibration. ******
Nethkâdasch schmach**
May Your light be experienced in my utmost holiest. ******
Têtê malkuthach.**
Your Heavenly Domain approaches. ******
Nehwê tzevjânach aikâna d’bwaschmâja af b’arha.**
Let Your will come true - in the universe (all that vibrates)*
just as on earth (that is material and dense).***** ******
Hawvlân lachma d’sûnkanân jaomâna.**
Give us bread (understanding, assistance) for our daily need, ******
Waschboklân chaubên wachtahên aikâna
daf chnân schwoken l’chaijabên.**
detach the ropes of faults that bind us, (Karma)*
like we let go the guilt of others.***** ******
Wela tachlân l’nesjuna**
Let us not be lost in superficial things (materialism, common temptations), ******
ela patzân min bischa.**
but let us be freed from that what keeps us off from our true purpose. ******
Metol dilachie malkutha wahaila wateschbuchta l’ahlâm almîn.**
From You comes the all-working will, the lively strength to act,*
the song that beautifies all and renews itself from age to age.***** ******
Amên.**
Sealed in trust, faith and truth.*
(I confirm with my entire being)***** ******
 
Lords Prayer translated from Aramaic** ******
A Translation of “Our Father” directly from the Aramaic into English
(rather than from Aramaic to Greek to Latin to old English to modern English)
*O cosmic Birther of all radiance and vibration. Soften the ground of our being and carve out a space within us where your Presence can abide. ***
*Fill us with your creativity so that we may be empowered to bear the fruit of your mission. ***
*Let each of our actions bear fruit in accordance with our desire. ***
*Endow us with the wisdom to produce and share what each being needs to grow and flourish. ***
Untie the tangled threads of destiny that bind us, as we release others from the entanglement of past mistakes. ***
Do not let us be seduced by that which would divert us from our true purpose, but illuminate the opportunities of the present moment. ***
For you are the ground and the fruitful vision, the birth, power and fulfillment, as all is gathered and made whole once again.
 
Lords Prayer, from the original Aramaic ****
Translation by Neil Douglas-Klotz in Prayers of the Cosmos
O Birther! Father- Mother of the Cosmos******
Focus your light within us - make it useful.******
Create your reign of unity now-******
through our fiery hearts and willing hands******
Help us love beyond our ideals******
and sprout acts of compassion for all creatures.******
Animate the earth within us: we then******
feel the Wisdom underneath supporting all.******
Untangle the knots within******
so that we can mend our hearts’ simple ties to each other.******
Don’t let surface things delude us,******
But free us from what holds us back from our true purpose.******
Out of you, the astonishing fire,******
Returning light and sound to the cosmos.******
*** Amen.***
 
Lords Prayer, from Aramaic into Old English**
Translation by G.J.R. Ouseley from The Gospel of the Holy Twelve or, Gospel of the Nazarenes (the authentic “New Testament” translated from Aramaic)**
*Our Father-Mother Who art above and within: ***
*Hallowed be Thy Name in twofold Trinity. ***
*In Wisdom, Love and Equity Thy Kingdom come to all. ***
*Thy will be done, As in Heaven so in Earth. ***
*Give us day by day to partake of Thy holy Bread, and the fruit of the living Vine. ***
*As Thou dost forgive us our trespasses, so may we forgive others who trespass against us. ***
*Shew upon us Thy goodness, that to others we may shew the same. ***
*In the hour of temptation, deliver us from evil. ***
*For Thine are the Kingdom, the Power and the Glory; From the Ages of ages, Now and to the Ages of ages. ***
*Amun. ***
 
I asked for the source of this translation, and I got the follwoing reply

Sorry took me abit of looking around but I think it came from the Nazarene way of Essenic studies. I save many files of subjects that interest me and in doing so somtimes forget where I got them
 
I don’t know about Aramaic per se , but there is a very interesting difference in the Douay-Rheims New Testament that is instructive.

Matthew 6 says: 9 Thus therefore shall you pray: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our supersubstantial bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from evil. Amen.

While Luke 11 says: 2 And he said to them: When you pray, say: Father, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. 3 Give us this day our daily bread. 4 And forgive us our sins, for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation.

The first time I encountered that reading in Matthew I almost lost it as I’d never seen that before (I was new to the DRB) but while My wife was in RCIA I asked the priest teaching us about the Eucharist about this when he spoke of “our daily bread”. His eyes lit up and he responded, “That is because the word in the Greek that St. Jerome was trying to translate is so comprehensive as to be nearly untranslatable, but it implies something that one needs daily in order to live. So in this passage he translated it into the Latin. “11 panem nostrum supersubstantialem da nobis hodie” and this just brings out all the more our need for the Eucharist.”

I don’t know if that will help much, or is even relevant, but I thought I’d share that with you.
Pax tecum,
 
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