Struggling to trust the Church

[Louman127]

Last night, I got into a Facebook debate with a “mad-trad” who went on the typical screed of the popes, Vatican II, and the Ordinary Form being evil, masonic counterfeits. When I shared an article by Dave Armstrong that shows Pope Francis is pro-orthodoxy and against Modernism, he dismissed it as “lies from Satan’s but hole”.

I know his kind are wrong; if they’re right, then it means Jesus went back on His promise of “the gates of hell will not prevail” and “I am with you always”. At the risk of sounding uncharitable, I don’t think they’re very bright, either. When they start accusing popes JPII and Paul VI of being secretly Jews, Masons, atheists, Muslims, and communists all at once, I know they don’t have both oars in the water.

However, I can’t shake the fear of, “what if they are right?” Even when I stay away from those websites or Facebook pages, this worry intrudes my every waking thought. I don’t talk to family or friends about this, because I’m certain they will have no idea what I’m talking about.

It’s starting to make me worry about my church friends and whether they espouse heresy. I don’t know who to trust anymore. And it makes me toe the line of Jansenist despair, that all people will go to hell.

What can I do about this? Why am I worrying about ideas that I know are so patently divorced from reality that they don’t deserve my time or attention?

I understand your doubts and worry. However; Jesus is truth and He did say fear is useless, what is needed is trust. Just simply trust Him and His mystical body (the Church). Your whole life there will be thoughts of doubts and the lies the devil tells always get more and more complex however; they always are marked by sin so that’s how to tell if they are demonic in nature. Use this feeling of doubt and worry to analyze yourself and your weaknesses and ask God to fill in your deficiencies. Use this as a strengthening experience because these plus many many other trials may come about when you are on you’re deathbed. You must get good at conquering these things now so it will be easier when reaching closer to death. The devil has many many ways to enter and confuse and worry your mind now a days. I know trust me… Everyday it’s a battle… You are worrying quite simply because the devil likes to place these worriess in your mind. Also a priest, bishop, or even a pope can stray away from the faith. The point is that you can trust the church herself and the laws she has are in definitive black and white WRITING. It’s just like a police department. Even the Chief of Police can go bad however; that doesn’t make the law bad. It is just that particular officer who FAILED at his SWORN duty. And as a Catholic we have our law written down in many forms especially the Catechism and the Bible. You don’t know who to trust? Well here is a good start God bless. Feel free to PM anytime.

 

[Lormar]

Exposing one’s self to such positions ultimately will have a poisoning effect on one’s spiritual life, since, in my view, that goal is precisely why such views have been created, if not overtly, than certainly unwittingly.

Yes, it does. I am proof of that. I’ve said as much as you have just written a few times on here before, but no one takes it seriously, and one CAF member even ridiculed me for saying it.

By the way, Fr. Chad Ripperger is excellent.

 

[Lormar]

I understand your doubts and worry. However; Jesus is truth and He did say fear is useless, what is needed is trust. Just simply trust Him and His mystical body (the Church). Your whole life there will be thoughts of doubts and the lies the devil tells always get more and more complex however; they always are marked by sin so that’s how to tell if they are demonic in nature. Use this feeling of doubt and worry to analyze yourself and your weaknesses and ask God to fill in your deficiencies. Use this as a strengthening experience because these plus many many other trials may come about when you are on you’re deathbed. You must get good at conquering these things now so it will be easier when reaching closer to death. The devil has many many ways to enter and confuse and worry your mind now a days. I know trust me… Everyday it’s a battle… You are worrying quite simply because the devil likes to place these worriess in your mind. Also a priest, bishop, or even a pope can stray away from the faith. The point is that you can trust the church herself and the laws she has are in definitive black and white WRITING. It’s just like a police department. Even the Chief of Police can go bad however; that doesn’t make the law bad. It is just that particular officer who FAILED at his SWORN duty. And as a Catholic we have our law written down in many forms especially the Catechism and the Bible. You don’t know who to trust? Well here is a good start God bless. Feel free to PM anytime.

What you have written is excellent and is, of course, very true. Thank you!

 

[AttendeDomine]

I don’t see how traditionalists can be as bad as you appear to say here because the Holy Father has given faculties (temporarily) to the priests of the traditional SSPX to hear confessions.

I appreciate that, but the reason he’s done so is because they’ve disobediently been persisting in hearing Confession (invalidly) despite reasons not to, and they’ve thereby endangered many souls who attend their chapels and who may be in mortal sin.

If you want another example of “how bad” that can be, my understanding, based on Taylor Marshall as a source, is that the SSPX claim to be able to absolve penitents of sin which are strictly reserved to the Holy Father.

If this is true, usurping that sort of authority is rather problematic.

 

[ProVobis]

I appreciate that, but the reason he’s done so is because they’ve disobediently been persisting in hearing Confession (invalidly) despite reasons not to, and they’ve thereby endangered many souls who attend their chapels and who may be in mortal sin.

I disagree that this was his reason for making the SSPX confessions valid.

 

[AttendeDomine]

Directing people to Father Ripperger is sound advice, IMO. Priests like him show us how it is possible to be a Catholic in good-standing, attached to traditional forms of liturgy and devotions, without having to resort to the extremist claims of some ultra-traditionalists.

I would just like to again emphasize that I do not personally endorse Fr. Ripperger in all of his particulars. He does have some views—such as his position on perfect contrition, his views on salvation outside the Church, emphasizing a critical take on Vatican II—which I believe *could *lead a person to appreciate ultra-traditionalist positions, or at least to have a very rigid and overly black-and-white understanding of things.

(Incidentally, by “critical take on Vatican II” I mean “attempting to dissect the documents of that council based on each sentence’s level of authority, and seemingly trying to find a way to largely ignore them while still being obedient to the Magisterium.”)

 

[ProVobis]

It’s not just on Facebook, it’s all over the internet.

Thank you.

But let’s be fair here. Internet can be a good thing too. Just sayin…

FWIW, the Index of Forbidden Books was removed in 1965 (or thereabouts). So it falls upon us to determine what is truth vs what is not.

 

[AttendeDomine]

Yes, it does. I am proof of that. I’ve said as much as you have just written a few times on here before, but no one takes it seriously, and one CAF member even ridiculed me for saying it.

By the way, Fr. Chad Ripperger is excellent.

Fr. Ripperger does make a point of focusing on spiritual development rather than running around like Chicken Little because of perceived problems in the Church. He has strong words for those who are more fascinated by their anger at what this or that individual is doing, rather than trying to grow in holiness.

I love the quote, although I don’t know the source, “A fool becomes overjoyed when he finds error, but the wise man rejoices in truth.”

 

[ProVobis]

I appreciate that, but the reason he’s done so is because they’ve disobediently been persisting in hearing Confession (invalidly) despite reasons not to, and they’ve thereby endangered many souls who attend their chapels and who may be in mortal sin.

I for one don’t believe that. The Holy Father has asked his own priests who serve in the Vatican to go out of their way to hear confessions. After all, that’s what ordained priests are supposed to do, no?

 

[Lormar]

Thank you.

But let’s be fair here. Internet can be a good thing too. Just sayin…

FWIW, the Index of Forbidden Books was removed in 1965 (or thereabouts). So it falls upon us to determine what is truth vs what is not.

This isn’t a discussion over the merits or not of the internet.

He mentioned reading things on Facebook. My post is telling him that someone doesn’t have to be on Facebook - those seeking to sow confusion and doubt are all over the internet.

 

[ProVobis]

This isn’t a discussion over the merits or not of the internet.

He mentioned reading things on Facebook. My post is telling him that someone doesn’t have to be on Facebook - those seeking to sow confusion and doubt are all over the internet.

My argument is the same for Facebook as it is for the internet. It can be a good thing. The only reason I signed up is because my nephew and niece persuaded me and this way I can keep track of all my great nephews, nieces, etc.

Let’s not kill the messenger here.

 

[Lormar]

Use the next Lent to fast from FB, and hopefully you will realize the worthlessness of that uber-wordly program, and end participation in it for good.

So many I have encountered on the internet have canceled their accounts on Facebook.

 

[CB_Catholic]

So many I have encountered on the internet have canceled their accounts on Facebook.

One can have a perfectly pleasant experience on FB with friends and family by controlling their page and having the self-discipline to stay away from sites that are disturbing or whatever to them. You don’t need to cancel an account, you need to monitor your own activities and block undesirable people and posts. FB is not the problem. People are.

I only allow certain people as friends, block others, set my privacy settings high, give out no information such as my address, e-mail address, phone #, when I will be away from home, etc. I have never had a problem with Facebook because I take responsibility for my page.

If one is getting into arguments with people, it is their own fault. You can block those people and hide offensive posts. One does not have to go to questionable sites and then get upset and argue with people. That is a choice one makes.