Study of sermons

[on_the_hill]

I thought this was interesting. It kind of supports my theory that non-Catholic ministers tend to use a whole lot of words trying to explain their particular message but they never seem to hit the mark. It’s like the difference between a whole lot of artificial, empty calories and a nutrient dense superfood.

And I’m kinda proud of our last place, bottom ranking with this.

Pew study on online sermons reveals varied Christian traditions

 

[Tis_Bearself]

my theory that non-Catholic ministers tend to use a whole lot of words trying to explain their particular message but they never seem to hit the mark. It’s like the difference between a whole lot of artificial, empty calories and a nutrient dense superfood.

That’s a rather broad statement. I’ve heard plenty of good sermons from non-Catholic ministers, particularly when they are discussing Scripture in a coherent way, not cherry-picking verses or trying to use the Bible to prove Catholics are wrong or any of that, but really getting into what’s going on in the Gospels. And other times when they are just fired up about Jesus, it’s good to hear somebody being that enthusiastic even if they aren’t Catholic.

 

[Beryllos]

There is much to be said for brevity.

 

[on_the_hill]

One aspect not covered by the study is that our homilies might average 14 minutes, but they’re part of a much longer Mass. There are probably Protestant services when the sermon is basically the service.

 

[signit]

One aspect not covered by the study is that our homilies might average 14 minutes, but they’re part of a much longer Mass. There are probably Protestant services when the sermon is basically the service.

In fact this story was on EWTN news last night and the Catholic commenting on it said something like that, that in Catholic Mass, Jesus Christ and the Eucharist are the main focus.

 

[KD8TZC]

I’m in formation for the permanent diaconate, and we were given a target of 7 - 8 minutes to shoot for in our homilies.

One of the things I try and do in mine is keep them simple. I never liked priests/deacons who would give a homily and pepper it with large words of very theological words that people don’t understand. In one of the first classes that we had during my aspirancy year the Priest teaching the class told us that when we get to homiletic, to always remember we have three different types of Sheep that we need to gear our homilies towards. The A (advanced sheep), the B (above average) sheep, and the C (clueless - I think this is where many of us are actually) sheep. He said we should make sure we gear our homily towards the lowest group of sheep that are in the congregation. If you are in front of a bunch of Cardinals, then go with the A sheep, but for the most part, the C sheep is where I generally design my homily to address.

One of the other things I do in my homily is I always address what the “Good News” in my homily. I do this as some times I hear very depressing homilies that never have any good news in it (or at least I couldn’t hear it), and I want to make sure I include some (as I was also instructed).

I have been complimented my a number of people in formation and outside of formation on how they like how my homilies are very understandable and you can always relate to them. I take pride in that and I know that is the Holy Spirit working in me… it is also one of the blessing of being formed into a deacon as we are able to relate to the congregation in some ways that a priest can not.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

always remember we have three different types of Sheep that we need to gear our homilies towards. The A (advanced sheep), the B (above average) sheep, and the C (clueless - I think this is where many of us are actually) sheep. He said we should make sure we gear our homily towards the lowest group of sheep that are in the congregation. If you are in front of a bunch of Cardinals, then go with the A sheep, but for the most part, the C sheep is where I generally design my homily to address.

I generally agree with your priest on this, but as a sheep who probably isn’t quite “clueless”, it can be tiring sometimes to hear homilies that repeat really basic stuff that I already know. The best homilies manage to either give a fresh insight in a simple way, that even an “A” sheep could think about, or they take a tried-and-true insight (example: we need to see Jesus in others) and present it in an unusual or memorable, yet simple and short, way.

Last Sunday for example, the priest shared that he had been sick with a cold, and being not at his best had somehow mixed up what readings he was supposed to be addressing and had written his homily on the wrong readings, a fact that he didn’t realize till he got up in the pulpit at the Saturday vigil. So he said instead of a homily we were going to have “Story Time with Father”. He then proceeded to tell a parable relating to God the Father and Christ the Son that was very moving and that I will probably remember for a long, long time. Honestly it was probably better than whatever he had written up in advance.

I have been complimented my a number of people in formation and outside of formation on how they like how my homilies are very understandable and you can always relate to them. I take pride in that and I know that is the Holy Spirit working in me… it is also one of the blessing of being formed into a deacon as we are able to relate to the congregation in some ways that a priest can not.

It’s nice that you get compliments on your homilies, and if you have a gift of public speaking, then it’s great that you’re developing it to serve God.
But I’d be careful about pride, when you make public statements like this. You may not have meant it in the way that it’s unfortunately coming off.

 

[KD8TZC]

I generally agree with your priest on this, but as a sheep who probably isn’t quite “clueless”, it can be tiring sometimes to hear homilies that repeat really basic stuff that I already know. The best homilies manage to either give a fresh insight in a simple way, that even an “A” sheep could think about, or they take a tried-and-true insight (example: we need to see Jesus in others) and present it in an unusual or memorable, yet simple and short, way.

I agree with everything you say, and in a forum like this, it is hard to share exactly what I mean unless you were to hear one of my homilies. “Clueless” is a harsh term, and I am not saying that most people are this, but they are not overly advanced either. Regardless, what I was trying to say, and what the priest was telling us is make sure all three sheep get something from the homily, as you state.

But I’d be careful about pride

Again, I agree, and why I said I know the Holy Spirit is working in me. Anytime I hear a compliment, I always remember it was the Holy Spirit working in and through me to reach that particular person. Now, if I hear complaints about a homily, I know that is geared towards me and I need to listen up and offer that up in prayer. Humility is something I take very seriously, and I apologize if I sounded prideful in my statement… that should not have been the case.

 

[praytell]

I am also in formation for the permanent diaconate. In our Homiletics courses, we are encouraged to keep it short. We are also encouraged to stick within the context of the readings, keeping in mind those who may be in attendance (know who you are talking to). We have been cautioned not to get into complex theological explanations. Instead, try to focus on things that are going on in your faith community.

After two years of Homiletics I can say with relative certainty that I am not a gifted homilist and will need to work very hard on it. Keeping in mind that permanent deacons have a foot in both ordained ministry and the secular world, it will probably be useful to draw from that experience also. God reaches out to us through Scripture and it is important to try to make sure that message gets through.

 

[on_the_hill]

We had a seminarian (he was ordained this past summer) who said they’d been taught to aim for no more than 9 minutes.

 

[PuerAzaelis]

I am a Catholic primarily because I am a fan of the 3-4 minute homily.

Just kidding.

Kind of.

 

[Michael16]

Personally, I like that we Catholics don’t focus on homilies the way Protestants do their sermons. I’m at Mass to hear the Word and receive Our Lord. Homily is delightful icing.

If I may offer a layman’s opinion:

I think the homily should be short, sweet and to the point and addressing how to apply the readings to everyday life and to build up the faith of everyone present.

I like the know your audience and gear it to them.

 

[Beryllos]

The A (advanced sheep), the B (above average) sheep, and the C (clueless - I think this is where many of us are actually) sheep.

Does this approach assume that there is a one-dimensional scale of sheep spirituality? Of course there are different dimensions, like mind and heart. One sheep might have a great appreciation for Scripture and catechism, and another might just know how to love. How do you prepare a homily for both?

 

[KD8TZC]

Of course there is not one dimension of spirituality, as we are all unique. What the priest was trying to convey to us back in our aspirancy year was that we need to try and touch all people with our preaching. The problem is, you will never be able to do that all the time. Some people are distracted, some people just may not connect to the Good News, some people will get it, and all the other myriad variations on this.

I just pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance each time I sit down to write my homilies in formation and I try to look at the text in a fresh and naive way (meaning, I try and let go of all the preconceived ideas I have of the text). I ask myself the question on how this text has touched me? What am I excited about in this passage? What questions do I have? I try and then concentrate on one specific and clear message. I want to create a spiritual experience for the listener. This is about formation not information. I also want to SHOW them the Good News, not just tell them what it is. Give this some skin meaning, give it life, show it in real life… their lives, my life, someones life. This means make the homily relevant to them… and relevance is what is most lacking in many homilies (those that do not connect to us).

I don’t claim to be an expert, and have been only doing this a short time, but I found that with prayer and trusting in the Holy Spirit, and doing the steps above and others I can help connect the Word of God to those who are listening. It is challenging and I often doubt my abilities, but if I do this, I trust my homily will connect with as many people as possible.