Sub creation and neo platonism?

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Im really confused and would appreciate any help… I

Am I correct that the idea of God creating the world through Angels is Neo platonic? Is it also Gnostic?

What is the Catholic view? I saw a quote saying its not heretical and another quote saying it’s wrong and God made the world immediately. What is correct? I’m looking for doctrine but also if the idea is actually neo platonic. Is it part of neo Platonism that was similar to Christianity or the Gnostic part? Also was the idea eventually rejected in a Church council?

Am I correct that some parts of neo Platonism were accepted by the Church and others werewere Gnostic?
 
Im really confused and would appreciate any help… I

Am I correct that the idea of God creating the world through Angels is Neo platonic? Is it also Gnostic?

What is the Catholic view? I saw a quote saying its not heretical and another quote saying it’s wrong and God made the world immediately. What is correct? I’m looking for doctrine but also if the idea is actually neo platonic. Is it part of neo Platonism that was similar to Christianity or the Gnostic part? Also was the idea eventually rejected in a Church council?

Am I correct that some parts of neo Platonism were accepted by the Church and others werewere Gnostic?
Here is the only source I know of that even begins to approach your questions.

Scroll down to “Influence of Neo-Platonism”

newadvent.org/cathen/10742b.htm
 
Thanks for the reply! OK I read that God made the world immediately and I was told it was through Christ but that there’s a theological opinion that He could have used Angels to assist… Theres even an Eastern icon of this… So im leaving it up to God but seems its a theological opinion - i mean assistance, not them creating. We need to remember i guess that God made the world through Christ who is God so its still direct… Still immediate I think…

Am I correct the neo platonic and Gnostic idea is different cause it talks about ‘demiurges’ and they are given more of a role somehow? They also believe the physical world is evil which is false and they even say the demiurges are evil which is odd…
 
There is a interesting reference in the writings of Philo. Philo Judaeus was a Jewish writer living in the time of Jesus and the Apostles. He interprets the “let us make man” to mean God had assistants in “On the Creation” Chapter 24, section 75. Christians see this passage as a reference to the Trinity. But, the Philo reference shows that school of thought was present during the Apostolic age, and before.
 
Im really confused and would appreciate any help… I

Am I correct that the idea of God creating the world through Angels is Neo platonic? Is it also Gnostic?

What is the Catholic view? I saw a quote saying its not heretical and another quote saying it’s wrong and God made the world immediately. What is correct? I’m looking for doctrine but also if the idea is actually neo platonic. Is it part of neo Platonism that was similar to Christianity or the Gnostic part? Also was the idea eventually rejected in a Church council?

Am I correct that some parts of neo Platonism were accepted by the Church and others werewere Gnostic?
I don’t think any genuine Neoplatonist would have put it that way (that God created the world through angels), but there is certainly a resemblance in such a view to Neoplatonic thought.

Plotinus (A.D. 204/5-270), the founder of Neoplatonism, held that there is a unique Principle, that he calls the One, from which emanate an Intellect and (through the Intellect) a Soul. From the Soul, in turn, come all the human souls as well as material beings. (As you can see, there is a superficial resemblance to Trinitarian theology here, but we have to keep in mind that the Intellect and the Soul are strictly subordinate to the One, a view that is contrary to orthodox Christian teaching.)

Plotinus does not really speak of “creation,” because the emanations are necessary: they are not a free action on the part of the One, but simply flow out spontaneously, as it were.

It is possible that some Christian writer may have taken a cue from Neoplatonism and posited that creation takes place by the mediation of angels. Avicenna (the Muslim Persian philosopher Ibn Sina, 980-1037) held a doctrine that was more or less similar to this. However, this is not the orthodox teaching about creation: creation is always direct from God and “ex nihilo.” God simply creates; He does not use a pre-existing material.

Thomas Aquinas refutes the proposition that God can “delegate” the power to create to the angels in , I, q. 45. a. 5Summa theologiae.

Gnosticism is a very broad category, but Valentinian Gnosticism, arguably the most typical form, did have a doctrine that resembled Neoplatonism: they posited an utterly ineffable Principle from which all beings emanate, and to which all eventually return.

A lot of good concepts, however, are taken from Neoplatonism. For example, the idea of “procession from” and “return to” the Creator (which is inspired by Neoplatonism) can be perfectly orthodox, provided the “procession” consists in a true and free creation and the “return” respects the legitimate autonomy of creatures. (Valentinian Gnosticism fails on both counts: the “procession” is a necessary emanation, and the “return” consists in a fusion with the Principle.)

The terminology used for Trinitarian dogma is probably inspired by Plotinus: the name he gave to the One, Intellect, and Soul is “hypostasis,” the same term used for the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Greek. (Plotinus, in turn, gets this term from Aristotle.) As I noted, however, authentic Trinitarian theology is fundamentally very different from Neoplatonism.

Aquinas’ doctrine of the intrinsic principles of being (the so-called “act of being”) is largely inspired by the Neoplatonist Christian writer called Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite (ca. A.D. 400).
 
Thank you for the reply! I was told that its not a heretical proposition to say that Angels can assist in creation if creation is still only through Christ? In any case I do believe that its immediate and direct by God. Is St Thomas refuting this, or is that another idea? I just want to make sure to believe what the church teaches… Is there a way that Angels can assist that is not directly or ministerially? Apparently there’s an Eaatern icon of this so I’m wondering what it means…
 
Thank you for the reply! I was told that its not a heretical proposition to say that Angels can assist in creation if creation is still only through Christ? In any case I do believe that its immediate and direct by God. Is St Thomas refuting this, or is that another idea? I just want to make sure to believe what the church teaches… Is there a way that Angels can assist that is not directly or ministerially? Apparently there’s an Eaatern icon of this so I’m wondering what it means…
Creation is an act of the Blessed Trinity, so it is always from the Father, through the Son, and in the Holy Spirit. Creation is always through Christ in this sense.

The angels can assist in creation the same way we do (albeit more perfectly than we can): either by providing the occasion for God to act (as when a couple begets a child, and God creates the child’s soul), by being “instruments” of God’s power (as when a priest administers the Sacraments), or by ordering pre-existing creatures (as when an artists paints or an architect builds a building).

But they cannot will to create something ex nihilo, any more than we can. Aquinas’ point is that creation is such a “difficult” thing to do that only God can do it, and He cannot even communicate that power to his creatures. (Keep in mind that even the mightiest angel is only like a grain of sand in comparison to his Creator.)

Creation doesn’t just mean “bringing something into existence;” it also means maintaining it in existence. It entails a continuous communication of being, which only God can give.

I don’t remember any document of the magisterium that takes this position in so many words; however there is this canon from Vatican I’s Dei Filius:
If anyone does not confess that the world and all things which are contained in it, both spiritual and material, were produced, according to their whole substance, out of nothing by God; or holds that God did not create by his will free from all necessity, but as necessarily as he necessarily loves himself; or denies that the world was created for the glory of God: let him be anathema (Can. 5).
You may find ancient or medieval authors that take the position that God can communicate the power to create to the angels. (I think Peter Lombard entertained the possibility.) However, such a position would be difficult to maintain nowadays, especially in the light of this definition from Vatican I. The Church’s understanding of these matters increases over time.
 
Thanks for the thorough reply! 🙂 I believe what the Church teaches 🙂 so if its this, then this. Maybe the medieval authors meant not creating but working somehow with already created matter that was made out of nothing… I don’t know 🙂 in any case I believe God made the world from nothing and that this is a Divine act that creatures cannot do… So what V1 and St Thomas said I think makes sense… He created all by His Divine Will
 
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