S
Syele
Guest
So if I were addicted to something and was therefore strongly tempted to it, I’m not responsible for not controlling myself? That seems like a cop out to me.
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R
ricmat
Guest
You had mentioned earlier that you didn’t agree with the Catholic definition of mortal sin - and I was just trying to find out what Catholic definition you were using
Perhaps I should have said “What IS your “Catholic” definition of mortal sin?”
Not that strange a question
If the definition you are referring to is CCC 1857, then what is it you don’t agree with?
R
ricmat
Guest
I would say that you are responsible for trying to control yourself. Maybe you would succeed, but maybe you wouldn’t.
If you have the strength to overcome the addiction, but don’t do it then I’d say that you are responsible for your actions.
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Syele
Guest
You had mentioned earlier that you didn’t agree with the Catholic definition of mortal sin - and I was just trying to find out what Catholic definition you were using
Perhaps I should have said “What IS your “Catholic” definition of mortal sin?”
Not that strange a question
If the definition you are referring to is CCC 1857, then what is it you don’t agree with?
S
Syele
Guest
Philippians 4:13 - “I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.”
So I’m a Christian, I have Christ strengthening me… At what point may I say I don’t have enough strength to overcome? I don’t see how that is an option. I allow God to strengthen me enough to overcome the addiction or I don’t. An addiction is a very powerful temptor, but it’s not impossible to overcome, ever.
I find it too weak in it’s definition, the one on venial sin even weaker and I find the following description of the consequence of Mortal sin to be inconsistant with the nature of God.
I do agree with some of what is stated about sin later in the CCC:
1864 "Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."136 There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit.137 Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.
1871 Sin is an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law (St. Augustine, *Faust *22L 42, 418). It is an offense against God. It rises up against God in a disobedience contrary to the obedience of Christ.
1872 Sin is an act contrary to reason. It wounds man’s nature and injures human solidarity.
If I were to define “mortal sin” I’d say 1864 there has it fairly close.
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Syele
Guest
Yes I understand what you mean. DId you see my signature? your description of being happy all tha time reminds me of it. I have a set of Grandprents into positive confession, They are getting rather elderly and my Grndma keeps saying her Husband isn’t Christian anymore because he is depressed and not energetic (he just had heart surgery, a stroke, got his driver’s license taken and had to move in an assisted living.) She said if he was “really” Christian, he’d be happy or confess he’s happy and God would make him happy.
That’s when another relative said what’;s in my sig. I think it IS possible for God to give Christians a peace about Him being in chrge of our lives, allowing us to avoid nervous breakdown and such, but “Happy” isn’t everything. Bad things still happen.
M
Mommyof02green
Guest
Yep, I agree we are “ALWAYS” responsible for our own actions. When judgment comes we will be judge by what we do and what we fail to do. That’s why at Mass we confuse this: I confess to almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault, in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done, and in what I have failed to do; and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin, all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord, our God.
God’s mercy is a free gift! The salvation that God offers us is a free gift! I cannot “earn” His gifts of love, however I can choose to accept them or reject them. That is free will. It’s a lot like receiving a “birthday present”. I did nothing to “earn” the present; people generally give them because they want to show how much they love you.
Once I receive the present, I have the choice on what to do with it. I can open it, cherish it, and use it for the rest of my life. That is I accept it!
Once I receive the present, I have the choice to open it, decided I don’t want it, take it back to the store, or throw it way. That is I reject it!
The other thing that happens is I can receive it, open the present, but don’t really know what to do with it. So I store it way in the back of some closet, where it can be lost and forgotten. Then later I may stumble on it and decide then that I need it and can use it. So at first I reject it but later I accept it.
The other thing that can happen is that I can take it, love it, use it, cherish it, but then one day decided I don’t need it anymore…so I throw it way. This means that I accept it, but later reject it.
These things with the presents are the Catholic understanding of Salvation and God’s Mercy and Love. His Mercy, Love and Salvation are there, it is always a “free” gift, but I decided what to do with that gift. I can allow God to work in my life or I can tell him no thanks!
We at the same time are responsible to “avoid” the things that lead us to sin. Syele, I know that you are a Mom. I forget how old your little one is… However, I almost sure that there are things that your little one does that leads him/her into trouble. If your little one is anything like mine, then I’m almost sure that some of those things could have been avoided if they just listen to that “Motherly Advice” that you gave them.
M
Mommyof02green
Guest
It is a hard thing to understand how anyone can just flat out reject God and His Mercy. I myself don’t understand how anyone can just totally 100% turn away from God and say. I don’t want God. I don’t need God, etc. However, it does happen. They don’t want to repent, they don’t care about God. They absolutely want NOTHING at all do with God. Those are the people that end up in Hell.
Hell is a lonely, selfish, and bitter place. It is a place filled with hatred and isolation. Isolation from God and His love. If you end in Hell, it because deep down you wanted to be there. You did not want God in your life and you have no desire to spend eternity with Him. God’s love and Mercy is so perfect that He gives you what you want. He does not force you to love Him and he will not force you to be in Heaven with Him when all you want is to be apart from Him.
You’re right God doesn’t abandon us. He is always there to offer us His Mercy and Love. However, He doesn’t make us take it. Taking it is up to us. If a person dies in the state of “mortal sin”; then they never sought God’s love and mercy. They didn’t want God! The thief on the cross is an example of how there is a window to seek God’s Love and Mercy. I’m sure the thief didn’t live a “good Christian life”.
The thief’s dieing words were a confession to God for his wrongs. The thief in his dieing moments sought God’s love and mercy and was granted it. The thief had received God’s forgiveness because he asked for it. If a person dies in a state of “mortal sin” they never asked for God’s mercy, they didn’t want God in their life.
Where does that leave the sacrament of Confession? Well God knows your true heart and your true deep down wish and desire. He knows if you are asking for “mercy” because you are truly sorry; or if you are asking for “mercy” just because you are afraid of the unknown. It’s like any good parent with children. A parent knows if the child is “truly” sorry or if they are just “saying” sorry. Most of the time, if a person is truly sorry then they seek to let the person know ASAP. That’s why Catholicism teaches Catholics that if they are truly sorry for their sins they should go to confession and as soon as possible. That’s why Catholicism teaches Catholics they should do a daily examination of their conscience.
Honestly, before I go to confession I’m already sorry for the things I’ve done. I am just going to God to tell him that I’m sorry. Yes, I could just tell God that I am sorry in my prayer in my bedroom. However, confession gives me something that I can’t get in my bedroom. It gives me a voice. It gives me someone to say: “Yes, Mommy God forgives you for your sins”. Hearing those words helps me and my soul. Sometimes, I know that God forgives me, but I rattle myself with doubt, I start thinking how can God forgive me, there’s no way that he can forgive me. So by going to confession, I can hear the words: Yes, God forgives you! This washes away any doubt that I had. Plus the bonus: because of the seal of confession, Father, is never going to tell anyone what my sins were. Therefore, I don’t have to worry about Ms. Jane Doe or Mr. John Doe hearing about my sins.
In a simple word “YES”.
J
jmcrae
Guest
Syele;
As someone who has suffered from an addiction in the past, you know that it’s not always easy to say “no” to it. Addiction does interfere with our free will, more than we like to admit.
But an addict should not simply slash his wrists if he keeps falling even when he was trying so hard not to fall - he needs to simply accept the fact that he will fall from time to time, and do his best to forget about it, and carry on from there. He also needs lots of support from his friends and family.
A person can beat an addiction, but it takes time, it takes support, and in the beginning of the recovery period, sheer force of willpower doesn’t always do the trick, even though it often seems to us as though it should be enough.
As someone who has suffered from an addiction in the past, you know that it’s not always easy to say “no” to it. Addiction does interfere with our free will, more than we like to admit.
But an addict should not simply slash his wrists if he keeps falling even when he was trying so hard not to fall - he needs to simply accept the fact that he will fall from time to time, and do his best to forget about it, and carry on from there. He also needs lots of support from his friends and family.
A person can beat an addiction, but it takes time, it takes support, and in the beginning of the recovery period, sheer force of willpower doesn’t always do the trick, even though it often seems to us as though it should be enough.
V
valient_Lucy
Guest
I think the OP confuses “inflicting pain” with “torture” and “hurt” with “harm.” I can hurt a person without harming them, and I can harm a person without hurting them.
I learned this last year. I was born with defective knees, and as a result they dislocated very easily, and I would end up in the emergency room. As a result, I had surgery on both of my knees a year ago to fix them. The day after the surgery was very painful, and I went through PT for four months. The Physical Therapy was very painful, since I had to regain my mobillity within four months after surgery, or I would not have full use of my legs. It hurt. A lot. I once told my physical therapist, “It hurts.” He replied, “I know. But I’m not here to be your best friend.” He then proceeded to bend my leg even further, which caused the pain to increase.
Now, a year later, I have full use of my legs. I can run, jump, exercise, dance, and take a shower without being terrified I’ll end up in the hospital. Not a day goes by that I am not thankful for everything the surgeon and the physical therapist did for me, even though it hurt a great deal. It gave me freedom; full use of my knees, and spared me from future surgeries.
A person can cause pain without torturing them. I actually grew to enjoy my physical therapy session; not because of any masochistic tendancies, but because I wanted to walk again.
I learned this last year. I was born with defective knees, and as a result they dislocated very easily, and I would end up in the emergency room. As a result, I had surgery on both of my knees a year ago to fix them. The day after the surgery was very painful, and I went through PT for four months. The Physical Therapy was very painful, since I had to regain my mobillity within four months after surgery, or I would not have full use of my legs. It hurt. A lot. I once told my physical therapist, “It hurts.” He replied, “I know. But I’m not here to be your best friend.” He then proceeded to bend my leg even further, which caused the pain to increase.
Now, a year later, I have full use of my legs. I can run, jump, exercise, dance, and take a shower without being terrified I’ll end up in the hospital. Not a day goes by that I am not thankful for everything the surgeon and the physical therapist did for me, even though it hurt a great deal. It gave me freedom; full use of my knees, and spared me from future surgeries.
A person can cause pain without torturing them. I actually grew to enjoy my physical therapy session; not because of any masochistic tendancies, but because I wanted to walk again.
T
Trad_Catholic_1
Guest
This is true. Yes, many sins may be committed because of an addiction, but not quite the same thing as committing a sin when you liked and because you liked. Addiction is a great misfortune.
T
Trad_Catholic_1
Guest
I don’t think there’s any guarantee that suffering removes our attachment to sin. It may do sometimes or maybe for some people. Sometimes there appears to be no redemption and no meaning and suffering remains a great mystery.
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