Suffering while not in grace?

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Hello,
Is suffering redemptive when one is not in a state of grace? Thanks, Tim
 
Tim, I could be wrong on this, so please don’t take my word for this, but I believe that suffering is only redemptive when a soul is in a state of grace.

Take care,
Mary
 
Thanks Mary, It would make sense since it is a joining in the passion. But could it begin at contrition prior to absolution? Tim
 
Tim -
This is an excellent question, and I think you should post it in the “Ask an Apologist” forum. I’d like to know the answer as well.
 
Well, I didn’t receive a response on the AAA subforum. My question still stands. I bring this up again so that fresh eyes can see and maybe have an answer. Thanks, Tim
 
id have to say in the times of judgement were all in a state of grace even bigger if thats possible. i read revelations relate it to my life and just like the movies i no who wins so im stuck with a sorrowful question why does evil continue to fight a loosing battle. i realize one thing the word of god never fails.
 
As I understand things – if not in the state of Grace and desire to make my sufferings redemptive and united to Christ and His Passion, the first step in that desire is to return to the state of Grace and unity with Christ through sorrow for sin and Confession if Catholic.
The moment one repents of sin, it is forgiven; however in the case of mortal sin it could be said that that forgiveness is conditional (for a Catholic) on a good Confession and as soon as possible. Should perchance one die prior to that good Confession, God knows whether one truly intended to go to Confession or not - and if one did so intend, His forgiveness remains.

This Rock – Quick Questions

catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0403qq.asp
******Q: My friend said that Christ died once for all, so we don’t need redemptive suffering souls. How should I respond? ******

A: A Scripture verse to point your friend to is Colossians 1:24: “Now I [Paul] rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church.”

Paul doesn’t mean that Christ’s death is insufficient for universal redemption. He is simply saying that his own incorporation into the mystical body of Christ (the Church) means that his sufferings can be helpful for other members of the body (the Colossian Christians to whom he is writing). They are helpful only because Paul is united to Christ in his Church and is offering his sufferings to Christ for the sake of the Church.

In the same way, suffering souls can similarly offer up their sufferings for the benefit of others.
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Quoting my previous post:
***A: A Scripture verse to point your friend to is Colossians 1:24: “Now I [Paul] rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church.”
Click to expand...
Paul doesn’t mean that Christ’s death is insufficient for universal redemption.***
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I have initiated a thread into the Apologetics Forum which asks a question indirectly connected to this thread but referring to the above quotation. This question has long puzzled me as to whether St. Paul is stating that Christ’s sufferings were insufficient or not - and the implications. Here’s the link for any who may be interested in the question also:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3936304&postcount=1

If the answers in Apologetics (hoping I will get some!) is too confusing to me, then I will put it into “Ask an Apologist” Forum.
 
Hi Tim…the cross reference I gave into the Apologetics Forum and the answer received certainly has corrected an incorrect concept of mine re the quotation from St. Paul - which was (my concept) theologically incorrect:eek: re St. Paul’s meaning: “complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions”…Blessings - Barb:)
Edit: Insofar as I am aware (and as above, I can well be wrong!) if one desires to unite one’s sufferings to those of Christ and thus be redemptive, one needs to be in unity with Him or in the state of Grace…hence the first move if not in the state of Grace is to go to Confession, if Catholic.
 
Hi BarbaraTherese, I remember receiving a response of yes to the question of “can we offer up past sufferings?”. That when in communion with Christ’s passion, our sufferings become timeless as His own. Do you all agree? If not, then it appears as though most suffering I’ve experienced is justice and punishment, an idea I’m trying to purge myself of to dislodge resentment. It’s a dangerous circle to be in, a self justification to sin. I’m not Job, rightous and accepting of all sufferings. I started out in the devil’s hands, lacking the formation of christian character and at times going against what is written in all hearts. It seems that suffering in mortal sin is a foretaste of hell, which can quickly change to a union with Christ in His sufferings in penance. I’m not sure the mind can overcome this protective hardening of the heart or meant to. What becomes of the salt that looses it’s savour?! Tim
 
Yes, I think we can offer past sufferings…this is what we do when we offer our whole lives to Christ in union with His. Not only this, but if in the state of mortal sin and then make a good Confession, the state of the soul becomes that as if the mortal sin were never present in the first place.

I dont think we can ever know (a guarantee) as to purpose, just why suffering may enter into our lives, but it is an honor to share the Cross of Christ and a gift to us…while “worldly consideration” will not see things this way. St. Peter tells us that Christ will be:

"7 To you therefore that believe, he is honour: but to them that believe not, the stone which the builders rejected, the same is made the head of the corner: 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of scandal, to them who stumble at the word, neither do believe, whereunto also they are set. "

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0101.html
*That’s why Paul talks (in that same letter to the Colossians) about “filling up in his flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s sufferings for the sake of his body, which is the Church” (Col 1:24). Does Paul mean that Jesus’ cross is insufficient to save us? Nope. He means that his sufferings are to be joined Christ’s and offered for the sake of his Body. In short, he is talking about being crucified with Christ and (like Christ) for the love of his people. *
For Catholics see suffering, not as something we do to be “good enough for God,” but rather as God’s strangest gift to us. And we do so because, like the Apostles who counted themselves fortunate to be worthy of suffering for the Name (Acts 5:41), we agree with Scripture that it is an undeserved honor (and one we could never earn) to “be found worthy of suffering for the Name” (if our little acts of charity and abstinence can even be compared with his complete act of self-denial which made us “good enough” for God 2,000 years ago).

The positive side of our faults and failings is that they can lead us to a measure of true humility…they can lead to our insighting our total dependance on God and His Grace and His Merciful Heart and make that our primary focus - rather than miserable self which will probably be engaged in the battle against failings lifelong. Our weaknesses, as St. Paul said, is when we find our strength which is The Lord, His Grace and His Mercy - if I am going to rely on myself for any sort of victory - I am destined for failure. “Oh happy fault!”…for in my faults and failings and my sorrowful repentance, it is The Lord’s Mercy that shines…and self finds its rightful place “a humble and contrite heart you will not disdain”…

A part of being the salt of the earth is to share by example that we are indeed sinners, but greater than this is The Mercy of Our Lord to which we constantly appeal in our miserable failures, and which never abandons us and is forever The Faithful and no matter the extent of our failures. It is not my virtue that must shine for be there any it was a Gift of Grace and never mine in the first place…rather The Mercy and Grace of The Lord. “I must decrease, He must increase” (St. Paul again, I think!)
 
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