Suicide sin

[GregoryDracula]

Yesterday afternoon, a 91 year old man about three houses down across the street walked into the back yard and shot himself. From what we heard from our neighbor who lives next door to the house, (and from what he was told from the man’s son, who was living with him), the man was starting to have trouble with eating, holding certain foods down, etc… the troubles you’d expect as old age really settles in.

I know the stance on suicide is that it is a sin, for reasons many of us have heard before.

But I was wondering, is it still considered a sin if the person’s mind is affected by something, such as a mind-effecting illness or drugs? (no drugs were involved with the guy, but we believe there was heavy depression that had set in.)

Also; please pray for the man and his family. It’s been a crazy couple days for our neighborhood.

 

[bmullins]

It’s still a sin, even if there are other factors. It is not necessarily a mortal sin, the man could very well end up in Purgatory. We just don’t know. It sounds like there are mitigating factors as to if he was truly culpable, but only God knows for sure.

 

[bcra]

o gentest heart of jesus have mercy on the soul of this faith ful departed and all the faithful departed. may they rest in peace amen:getholy::heaven::bible1:

 

[Godfollower]

The official Church teaching is as follows:

Suicide

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

Catechism paras. 2280-83 (emphasis added).

 

[Leegal]

Yesterday afternoon, a 91 year old man about three houses down across the street walked into the back yard and shot himself. From what we heard from our neighbor who lives next door to the house, (and from what he was told from the man’s son, who was living with him), the man was starting to have trouble with eating, holding certain foods down, etc… the troubles you’d expect as old age really settles in.

I know the stance on suicide is that it is a sin, for reasons many of us have heard before.

But I was wondering, is it still considered a sin if the person’s mind is affected by something, such as a mind-effecting illness or drugs? (no drugs were involved with the guy, but we believe there was heavy depression that had set in.)

Also; please pray for the man and his family. It’s been a crazy couple days for our neighborhood.

A sin, but culpability may be lessed by his age, dementia, other health problems, even regular medication that he was given affect the elderly much differently than they would a much younger man. There’s reason to believe he may not have been culpable nor thinking straight.

I could argue that all or most suicides have a lessened degree of culpabability because a person in a right state of mind would not kill themselves, so other circumstances, most likely, exist when a person takes such a drastic action.

Pray for his soul and God’s mercy. God knows the circumstances and if circumstances are present, God takes that into account.

 

[LayingHands]

Yesterday afternoon, a 91 year old man about three houses down across the street walked into the back yard and shot himself. From what we heard from our neighbor who lives next door to the house, (and from what he was told from the man’s son, who was living with him), the man was starting to have trouble with eating, holding certain foods down, etc… the troubles you’d expect as old age really settles in.

I know the stance on suicide is that it is a sin, for reasons many of us have heard before.

But I was wondering, is it still considered a sin if the person’s mind is affected by something, such as a mind-effecting illness or drugs? (no drugs were involved with the guy, but we believe there was heavy depression that had set in.)

Also; please pray for the man and his family. It’s been a crazy couple days for our neighborhood.

A sin against GOD, but, surely He knows all about him, that he had lived a full life and did not want to die slowly from what are symptoms of major internal cancers…it may be he already had the diagnoses for a long time…and he chose to leave on his terms…this will be between GOD and him. May GOD have mercy on him…

 

[ConstantineTG]

Yesterday afternoon, a 91 year old man about three houses down across the street walked into the back yard and shot himself. From what we heard from our neighbor who lives next door to the house, (and from what he was told from the man’s son, who was living with him), the man was starting to have trouble with eating, holding certain foods down, etc… the troubles you’d expect as old age really settles in.

I know the stance on suicide is that it is a sin, for reasons many of us have heard before.

But I was wondering, is it still considered a sin if the person’s mind is affected by something, such as a mind-effecting illness or drugs? (no drugs were involved with the guy, but we believe there was heavy depression that had set in.)

Also; please pray for the man and his family. It’s been a crazy couple days for our neighborhood.

It will be Christ who will judge him. We cannot even begin to speculate what the state of his soul is and what is going on in his mind at that time. And we can’t even make up hypothetical scenarios because from here we are not sure which ones do get people to heaven, and which ones don’t.

You are right about your last line, we should pray for him. Prayers for the dead are always efficacious and will help this man to heaven no matter what his condition was at his death.

 

[thistle]

Yesterday afternoon, a 91 year old man about three houses down across the street walked into the back yard and shot himself. From what we heard from our neighbor who lives next door to the house, (and from what he was told from the man’s son, who was living with him), the man was starting to have trouble with eating, holding certain foods down, etc… the troubles you’d expect as old age really settles in.

I know the stance on suicide is that it is a sin, for reasons many of us have heard before.

But I was wondering, is it still considered a sin if the person’s mind is affected by something, such as a mind-effecting illness or drugs? (no drugs were involved with the guy, but we believe there was heavy depression that had set in.)

Also; please pray for the man and his family. It’s been a crazy couple days for our neighborhood.

Only God knows the state of someone’s soul at death. However, we should also remember that even if the act of suicide has reduced culpability due to certain circumstances that does not necessarily mean a suicide case will be saved. People seem to focus on the suicide. We don’t know if the person has other unrepented mortal sins on their soul at death so speculating about the suicide act is too narrow a focus.
Also in the case you are writing about we don’t even know if the person is Catholic or not. There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

I do agree we should pray for him and his family.

 

[coco2]

Thistle, the Church does not teach that only Catholics will be saved. If God decides to have mercy on this person’s soul, then His will be done. This type of judging is dangerous to your own soul!

GregoryDracula, I will remember your neighbor while I say the Divine Mercy Chaplet today.

 

[thistle]

Thistle, the Church does not teach that only Catholics will be saved. If God decides to have mercy on this person’s soul, then His will be done. This type of judging is dangerous to your own soul!

GregoryDracula, I will remember your neighbor while I say the Divine Mercy Chaplet today.

You are wrong. The Church clearly teaches there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. That is an infallible teaching.

Who can be saved?

The Church teaching:

-** Baptism is necessary for salvation** (but does not ensure it as you must die in a state of grace).

• There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

So how can you be baptised and Catholic/deemed to be Catholic? There are 4 ways:

• Sacramental Baptism as a Catholic
• Baptism of Blood (non-Catholic dying for the Catholic Faith)
• Baptism of Desire - Explicit (e.g. a catechumen going through RCIA)
• Baptism of Desire - Implicit (invincible ignorance which means those who through no fault of their own do not know Christ, His Gospel, or His Church but still live a life according to the teachings of Christ in that ignorance)

You can debate who may or may not be included under invincible ignorance but outside the above 4 there is no salvation.

Not all Catholics go to Heaven but everyone in Heaven is Catholic.

 

[coco2]

You are wrong. The Church clearly teaches there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. That is an infallible teaching.

Who can be saved?

The Church teaching:

-** Baptism is necessary for salvation** (but does not ensure it as you must die in a state of grace).

• There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

So how can you be baptised and Catholic/deemed to be Catholic? There are 4 ways:

• Sacramental Baptism as a Catholic
• Baptism of Blood (non-Catholic dying for the Catholic Faith)
• Baptism of Desire - Explicit (e.g. a catechumen going through RCIA)
• Baptism of Desire - Implicit (invincible ignorance which means those who through no fault of their own do not know Christ, His Gospel, or His Church but still live a life according to the teachings of Christ in that ignorance)

You can debate who may or may not be included under invincible ignorance but outside the above 4 there is no salvation.

Not all Catholics go to Heaven but everyone in Heaven is Catholic.

This leaves out those Baptized in a Protestant denomination, which the Church recognizes as true Baptism. These people do not have to be baptized a second time if they become Catholic.

 

[coco2]

This is what the Catechism says about suicide:

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

 

[white_sheep]

This leaves out those Baptized in a Protestant denomination, which the Church recognizes as true Baptism. These people do not have to be baptized a second time if they become Catholic.

No, it doesn’t leave them out. There is only one baptism.