Sunday Obligation and Mortal Sin

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Nicholas_II

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Hi all

I have a few things I have realised I dont understand about mortal sin and mass-going.

The Church teaches that mortal sin “kills” sanctifying grace, and is a state whereby if you die you will not go to heaven.

On the other hand if you communicate in Mortal sin you are commiting an even greater sin if such were possible. Lets say your last state is worse than your first - a term I have often used.

To my points. How can not going to mass, kill sanctifying grace? : Is it not the case that it is dead before you decide not to go? 🤷

Secondly, if you go to mass in a state of mortal sin, are you still in mortal sin after you have come out, even if you have communicated “spiritually”. You have just confessed your sins (in the liturgy) asked for the communion of the saints, offered “the perfect sacrifice” of calvary, yet when you come out your still in mortal sin and hell bound? Im not denying the need for sacramental confession but Im questioning the state of soul before sacramental confession.

🤷

This is troubling me.
 
Nicholas_II said:
Hi all

I have a few things I have realized I dont understand about mortal sin and mass-going.

The Church teaches that mortal sin “kills” sanctifying grace, and is a state whereby if you die you will not go to heaven.

On the other hand if you communicate in Mortal sin you are commiting an even greater sin if such were possible. Lets say your last state is worse than your first - a term I have often used.

To my points. How can not going to mass, kill sanctifying grace? : Is it not the case that it is dead before you decide not to go? 🤷

Secondly, if you go to mass in a state of mortal sin, are you still in mortal sin after you have come out, even if you have communicated “spiritually”. You have just confessed your sins (in the liturgy) asked for the communion of the saints, offered “the perfect sacrifice” of calvary, yet when you come out your still in mortal sin and hell bound? Im not denying the need for sacramental confession but Im questioning the state of soul before sacramental confession.

🤷

This is troubling me.
Click to expand...
There is a difference between going to Mass while you are in a state of mortal sin, and receiving Holy Communion while in a state of mortal sin. The former is not a greater compounding of the sin, while the latter is.

Further to your question/statement about the confiteor portion of the Mass, i.e. the confession of sin, is not an absolution of mortal sin. It is absolution though for venial sin.

While you are questioning the state of the soul before sacramental confession, I would advise that if you have any reason to believe that you are in a state of mortal sin, you should pray the Act of perfect contrition, and followup with sacramental confession as soon as possible thereafter.

Just don’t receive Holy Communion until you have gone to Sacramental Confession.
 
Thank you for your response. however, it doesnt really answer my questions. It gives good advise for me. But it doesnt answer my queries about he teachings of the church. 👍
 
The state of the soul is not changed by attending Mass but by sacramental confession alone. To go even deeper here one must truly examine his/her conscience in order to asses that the “sin” in question is truly a sin that separates one from God and that if IT IS to seek counseling from clergy to make sure that you understand how this sin became a part of your life, to examine how you feel about the sin itself and how to make sure that it is not repeated. Only then will you be in “a state of grace” and can partake of the host at Mass.
I have found during my lifetime (50 yrs.) that sometimes what I feel is grave sin is probably just my conscience bothering me about some idiotic act or harbored thought I committed against someone or how I feel about a certain issue. A few years back a Benedictine priest told me during a private confession that we can truly commit a mortal sin when we, by our own selfishness attach too much importance to our own acts, behaviors and feelings, seeking not absolution from God but from our own guilt. Do we feel that we have offended God or do we simply feel sorry for ourselves.

God bless all! 👍
 
Im still not clear as to how missing mass is a mortal sin. And I have difficulty with the concept that attending and not communicating, but rather communicating spiritually, is not beneficial?

What is the point in going to mass if you arent communicating then? Divorcees?

Again, all these points are not denying the need for sacramental confession at a later time.

Im just unsure of the theology here, with attending mass. How can missing it kill sanctifying grace, and how can it not be beneficial if you communicate spiritually while in mortal sin ? Can you communicate spiritually while in mortal sin? Or are you just deceiving yourself?
 
The Third Commandment obliges us to keep holy the Lord’s day, which for Catholics means attending Mass. It is grave matter (the first condition for mortal sin) to skip Mass without a good reason. When you are already in mortal sin and you attend Mass, you don’t add another mortal sin to the mix, because you always have the obligation to attend, whether or not you are able to receive Communion.

So, the first benefit is not continuing to sin. Adding to the pile of mortal sins offends God and puts you more securely in the devil’s clutches. True, your soul is already dead, but it is still possible to make the situation worse. It might also increase your punishment in hell, should you die unrepentant.

The second benefit is the actual grace you receive when you attend. Mortal sin has driven Sanctifying grace (the life of God in your soul) out, but He still gives actual graces to assist you to repent and confess your sins.

When you attend Mass, you are really and truly present at the foot of Calvary as Jesus offers Himself as the perfect sacrifice to the Father. Why would you not go?

Betsy
 
The act of missing a holy day of obligation is not in and of itself a mortal sin. Many people miss Sunday Mass as well as other days. The question is, did or do you miss Mass for your own selfish reasons? If so, well you get it.🙂
 
Bill, do you mean that, for example, a young mother with an infant needing care who does not attend Sunday Mass (or a holy day) because she has to care for the infant. . .or a person who has say H1N1 flu that day. . .or a person who is flying home, gets stuck at a snowed-in airport and has no chance to get out to a Church any time between 5 p.m. Saturday and all of Sunday to a place where a Mass is offered, is in fact ‘missing Mass’ but because they have ‘reason’ (care of a child, sickness, physical inability) their missing Mass is not a sin? I totally agree.

The person who oversleeps on a Sunday and wakes up and realizes, and is in a place where there is no later Mass offered, has no car or ability to get to a place where a later Mass might be–likely is not guilty of mortal sin in missing Mass.

But the person who just vaguely thinks that they’d ‘rather not’ go out that day, maybe they feel a touch of lumbago, or an incipient headache. . .would be guilty. Especially if, after not going to the only morning Mass available, they happily gas up the car and drive out to go shopping and then dining somewhere. . .
 
Let me see if I can take a swing at this.

Despite the condiion of our soul we have the 3rd commandment. To observe the sabbath and to keep it holy. It doesn’t matter what state our soul is in we still have to try and keep God’s commandments. To continue violating God’s commandments because we are already in a state of mortal sin is just making a bad situation worse.

Now, because of that commandment and the fundamental importance of liturgical worship, we have the 1st precept of the church Which is listed in the CCC:

2042 The first precept (“You shall attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation and rest from servile labor”) requires the faithful to sanctify the day commemorating the Resurrection of the Lord as well as the principal liturgical feasts honoring the mysteries of the Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and the saints; in the first place, by participating in the Eucharistic celebration, in which the Christian community is gathered, and by resting from those works and activities which could impede such a sanctification of these days.

Please note that although you are “participating in the Eucharistic celebration” you are of course, not to recieve communion if you are in a state of mortal sin.
 
Nicholas_II said:
Im still not clear as to how missing mass is a mortal sin. And I have difficulty with the concept that attending and not communicating, but rather communicating spiritually, is not beneficial?

Im just unsure of the theology here, with attending mass. How can missing it kill sanctifying grace, and how can it not be beneficial if you communicate spiritually while in mortal sin ? Can you communicate spiritually while in mortal sin? Or are you just deceiving yourself?
Click to expand...
Attending Mass but not communicating is beneficial, you do receive graces (called actual graces), but it does not convey sanctifying grace. It can convict your conscience of the need to confess as soon as possible, but not save your soul, by itself.

Missing Mass (without a legitimate reason) is a mortal sin because the Church tells us it is.
 
Agree, Spirithound, with the caveat that it is not so much the sin of missing Mass being a sin 'because the Church says it is" but that the Church says missing Mass is a sin **because it is. **not to be circular, but more that it is a **revealed truth **which the Church is bound by the nature of its own existence to make known to its members. For its members, the statement is perfectly true and logical and understood as such.

We could as easily say that Christ rose from the dead 'because the Church says so". Did the Church saying it make it true? No, the Church says so because it is true.

The Church has the authority to make known revealed truths and so its authority is that of Christ, given it by Christ.

I just want to (hopefully) make it clear lest any of our friendly separated brethren get the mistaken impression that the Church goes around and ‘creates’ doctrines out of nowhere and then tries to ‘usurp’ God’s power in determining of itself what is and what is not a sin. That would be wrong. The way the Church knows what is and what is not a sin is through the guidance of the Holy Spirit–thus its knowledge is ultimately from God.
 
It is a mortal sin because the church declared it a mortal sin,
Jesus gave the apostles the power to “Bind and loose sins”, and so since then we have what are called the precepts of the church,

And here are the precepts of the church right off the vaticans site -

"II. THE PRECEPTS OF THE CHURCH

2041 The precepts of the Church are set in the context of a moral life bound to and nourished by liturgical life. The obligatory character of these positive laws decreed by the pastoral authorities is meant to guarantee to the faithful the very necessary minimum in the spirit of prayer and moral effort, in the growth in love of God and neighbor:

2042 The first precept (“You shall attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation and rest from servile labor”) requires the faithful to sanctify the day commemorating the Resurrection of the Lord as well as the principal liturgical feasts honoring the mysteries of the Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and the saints; in the first place, by participating in the Eucharistic celebration, in which the Christian community is gathered, and by resting from those works and activities which could impede such a sanctification of these days.

The second precept (“You shall confess your sins at least once a year”) ensures preparation for the Eucharist by the reception of the sacrament of reconciliation, which continues Baptism’s work of conversion and forgiveness.

The third precept (“You shall receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the Easter season”) guarantees as a minimum the reception of the Lord’s Body and Blood in connection with the Paschal feasts, the origin and center of the Christian liturgy.

2043 The fourth precept (“You shall observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by the Church”) ensures the times of ascesis and penance which prepare us for the liturgical feasts and help us acquire mastery over our instincts and freedom of heart.

The fifth precept (“You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church”) means that the faithful are obliged to assist with the material needs of the Church, each according to his own ability.

The faithful also have the duty of providing for the material needs of the Church, each according to his own abilities."

now, the reason your sins cannot be forgiven just by attending mass, or i should say, the reason you do not get sanctifying grace back, is because you need a sacrament to get it back,
God does forgive you as soon as you are honestly sorry, but that does not remove the stain, or guilt of sin,
you received sanctifying grace by the sacrament of baptism, you must get it back by another sacrament, which is confession,
and why is that? well, partly it is a mystery, which actually sacrament means mystery,
but the reason we need it is because we need a physical act, to both show God that yes, i am sorry, and also to humble ourselves and say i am a sinner.
it is an act of love, and an act of humility, we are not just telling God we are sorry, that is easy enough, we are showing Him! we are proving it to Him,
of course God knows when we are sorry…but a person that truly loves God, would not hesitate to run to His feet immediately after offending Him…

well, other then that, confession is also necessary to overcome your sins, there are special graces we get from confessing, not just our mortal sins, but our venial,
and depending on your priest, you also get advice to overcome your sins as well.
you also need to do penance for your sins after confession, and the priest knows what penances to give you, he is trained to know based on what you confess,

ok well to your original questions -
*"To my points. How can not going to mass, kill sanctifying grace? : Is it not the case that it is dead before you decide not to go?

Secondly, if you go to mass in a state of mortal sin, are you still in mortal sin after you have come out, even if you have communicated “spiritually”. You have just confessed your sins (in the liturgy) asked for the communion of the saints, offered “the perfect sacrifice” of calvary, yet when you come out your still in mortal sin and hell bound? Im not denying the need for sacramental confession but Im questioning the state of soul before sacramental confession."*
**
(Continued in next post)**
 
(Post 2, continued from post 1)

the mass forgives only venial sins, or i should say, Jesus does in the Eucharist, as does holy water when you bless yourself and say a little prayer, which is -
“By this holy water and by Your Precious Blood, wash away all my sins, O Lord.”

so yes, if you are in mortal sin when you go to church, you are still in mortal sin when you leave, you must confess to a priest to be washed clean of mortal sins.

it is worse when you receive communion in mortal sin because you are eating of the bread of life, when you are spiritually dead, it is a sacrilege, which is the deliberate violation of sacred things,
when you are in mortal sin it is very bad, but when you have committed a sacrilege, you’ve taken things to a whole new level,
well, look at it this way…what kind of guilt would you go through by punching out a priest or nun? it would be a sacrilege to do so,
but receiving communion in the state or mortal sin is many times more worse then that, we just can’t see or feel what we have done…
when Adam and Eve ate of the tree of knowledge, they lost their sanctifying grace, and so they were banished from the garden, but the main reason they were banished was not out of punishment, it was more for protection, God was protecting them from the tree of life, which if they had eaten from it, it would have been true death…perhaps they would have even died on the spot…who knows, but either way, we can compare the “Tree of life” to the “Bread of life”, and although it would have meant death to Adam and Eve, we do not have the great knowledge and understanding that they did, they would have known perfectly what they were doing, and would not beable to live, whereas we do not understand what we are truly doing, and we are saved by our ignorance, so when we take the Eucharist in mortal sin, we do unimaginable harm to our souls, not by the Eucharist itself perhaps, but by the act.
Blessed Imelda Lambertini is a perfect example of the extreme power and love of the Eucharist, she was just a little girl when she wanted to become a nun, she begged so much to her loving parents, that they finally gave her permission to go, but she was not yet old enough to receive communion, which she longed for more then anything,
one thing she said, which has always stuck with me is, “how can anyone receive Our Lord without dieing?”
she must have known or understood something about the Eucharist that we do not know…because on the day of her first communion, which she was able to receive before she was of age, on May 12, 1333, a beautiful Light of the Host shown above her as she knelt in peaceful prayer, everyone but the Sacristan had left the church and when she saw this Light above Imelda, she ran to get the Priest. after seeing this miracle, the Priest had no alternative but to give Imelda her First Communion. Immediately Imelda fell into ecstasy upon receiving her Lord. and afterwards, i think it was hours afterwards if i remember correctly, they noticed she was still in the church, and when they went to check on her, she was dead,
her body is incorrupt now,

so my point from all this is, this little girl died after receiving the Eucharist out of her great love for Jesus and desire to be with Him,
so how much more terrible it is, and truly worthy of death it must be, to receive this beautiful sacrament unworthily…

well…i feel like i’m just not answering your questions exactly as i should…you want to know when it becomes a mortal sin to not go to church? i’d say as soon as you decide…because even if you change your mind and go anyways, you have still chosen to sin,
we just don’t know the true state of our souls, i’m not sure how we can know… but when we know we have sinned, and we are sorry, it is just a matter of going to confession…it’s not supposed to be complicated, God doesn’t want it to be, He wants it to be simple for us,
it’s ok to have these questions and everything, but just as long as these questions or lack of understandings don’t make you decide to give up(i know you’re not gunna give up of course)

ok, i have probably misunderstood you as everyone else seems to have, but if not, then i hope this helps :3 ok, tc.
 
We should always strive to please God no matter what. If you want to get to heaven you MUST follow Gods commandments and by doing that you please God, therefore you must please God to get to heaven. So if you truly want to get to heaven you would do everything in your power to please God.

If you are in the state of mortal sin than you have done something to hurt God. But remember God is a forgiving God. So even though we have done something to turn away from God we can still please him. I would hope that everyone wants to get to heaven. And if we know how we need to please God in order to get to heaven why would we not do those things?

I would hope that one that is in the state of mortal sin would want to repent and change their ways to receive the rewards of heaven. If you truly want to get to heaven you must do what pleases God. So even if you are in the state of mortal sin you can please God by going to Mass. If it was me I would pray for the strength to sin no more. What better place to do that than in the presence of our Lord at Mass.

Keep striving for our Lord. Don’t let satan get in your way by missing Mass.
 
We can receive SOME sort of grace from prayer (including the prayer of the Mass) even when in mortal sin - if not, how would we ever receive the grace to repent (repentance is a result of grace too)?

It’s kinda like a life support machine for the soul that is otherwise dead in sin, a person on life support may be unable to get up and walk and talk normally, but the machine keeps the heart beating and the lungs and brain functioning until such time as full health can be restored.
 
You are exactly correct in your thinking. There are many reasons to day that many of us must miss Mass on Sunday or Holy days of obligation but we must do our very best to attend because that is what GOD WANTS US TO DO.

Please remember that it is not about us but about Him…
 
I think the whole focus is wrong if we are focusing only on things like missing church being mortal sin or some other rule being a mortal sin. We become overly legalistic as if somehow thinking that our works of flesh will save us. If I’m thinking about breaking this rule or that rule then I become worried about my own salvation. If I’m worried about my own salvation then I can’t help anybody else out, I can’t experience love for God or for anyone else because I’m locked up in fear for myself. Then I become judgmental of everyone else. Oh look he’s not doing it right, I say, I guess he’s going to hell. That is not the way God calls us to live in his holy scripture. We are to live by the Grace of God. We are to live in His love.

Instead, if we are focused on Jesus and a relationship with him then we won’t want to miss mass. We will go because we want to go not because we are worried God is going to hit us with a big stick if we don’t. We won’t have to worry about committing a mortal sin because we will be focused on Jesus and will want to be doing whatever Jesus is having us do in love. Mortal sin doesn’t occur by accident but is a willful choice against God and unwillingness to repent. If our hearts are set on God and pleasing him that is what counts. Do not become legalistic. Instead pray everyday and read the holy scriptures. Live by the Spirit of God and develop a relationship with God through Jesus Christ that is based on faith, hope and love and not fear. Then you will have a life filled with joy and love. For if you try to earn your salvation then you fall on the stumbling stone. That is what the Jews did by trying to keep the law but could not achieve it. It is by grace that we are saved through faith.
Code: 
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;
it is not from works, so no one may boast.
For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them." (Eph 2:8-10)

"I say, then: live by the Spirit and you will certainly not gratify the desire of the flesh.  
For the flesh has desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you may not do what you want.
But if you are guided by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness,
idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions,
occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
In contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness,
gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
Now those who belong to Christ (Jesus) have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also follow the Spirit.
Let us not be conceited, provoking one another, envious of one another."
(Gal 5:16-26)
 
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