Sunday School & Mass Help!

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I really need some help. We have a new leader heading up our Sunday School/Child Church program who has changed things so that the kids stay out of the mass the entire time. She felt it was necessary in order to go through the various materials they had. I spoke to her and Father today and while he does believe that the kids should come back after the Gospel and Homily, he had to compromise with this new leader. So is it ok to have the kids (ages 4-7) out for the entire mass? Am I making something out of nothing? I went and got my kids out just after the homily but other parents approached me aftrer mass to ask why I had a problem with the kids being out of mass. I should mention that once a month, Father will read from the Children’s Bible and we’re having a “Children’s Liturgy” so that is supposed to be the trade-off. Please share with me your thoughts.
 
As a mother of 6 I can tell you that it’s awfully hard to teach children about the Mass and to behave in the Mass if they are never in Mass! Why can’t the “Sunday School” be done before or after Mass. Maybe doughnuts and coffee could be provided for the rest of the family.
 
Is there only one Mass? Given the option, I’d go to another Mass so there would be no conflict. —KCT
 
By Sunday School are you referring to the Children’s Liturgy of the Word (which would be children ages 4-7 who have not received first communion), to RCIA for children-the children’s catechumenate (which would involve children over 7 who are not batpized), to CCD/PSR/Religious Education (children in grade 1 or higher, preparing for sacraments or already have first communion), or some type of child care or preschool program?

If you are referring to the first, CLOW, there are several threads on that topic, which discuss that program (permissible) and its abuses (manifold and horrendous). There is no reason the liturgy of the Word for children should take more than the Liturgy of the Word duing Mass. The children should be brought in well before the Eucharistic Prayer beings. The only thing that would make it take longer is some activity that is not part of the LOW–coloring sheet, craft etc. Any handout or activity sheet should be sent home, not completed during this session.

CLOW is exactly what it says, proclamation of the readings for the day from the approved Children’s Lectionary (no other source permissible) and teaching geared to their level of understanding (preferably by a deacon or a priest, or by a qualified, prepared lay person acting under direction of the pastor). It is not a catechetical session, it is not part of RCIA, still less is it babysitting, – it is liturgy, its only purpose is in making this part of the liturgy more accessible to children.

If the new director is making it serve multiple functions, she does not know her job and should be challenged. Under no circumstances (except possibly occasionally when a parent is assisting this program and must keep her children with her) should children who have made first communion be taken out Mass. They are obligated to assist at the full Mass, including proclamation of the Gospel and homily by a priest or deacon.
 
T1Catholic said:
I really need some help. We have a new leader heading up our Sunday School/Child Church program who has changed things so that the kids stay out of the mass the entire time. She felt it was necessary in order to go through the various materials they had. I spoke to her and Father today and while he does believe that the kids should come back after the Gospel and Homily, he had to compromise with this new leader. So is it ok to have the kids (ages 4-7) out for the entire mass? Am I making something out of nothing? I went and got my kids out just after the homily but other parents approached me aftrer mass to ask why I had a problem with the kids being out of mass. I should mention that once a month, Father will read from the Children’s Bible and we’re having a “Children’s Liturgy” so that is supposed to be the trade-off. Please share with me your thoughts.
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All children who have received their First Holy Communion and in my opinion those who are preparing to receive their First Holy Communion are obligated to attend Mass every Sunday and Holy Day. Not going to Mass is not an option. You should take your children to Mass and miss the Sunday school if you have to make a choice.
 
Great advise so far.

Llike Bro. Rich I just wouldn’t participate - and have been known to “not participate” when I felt it was detrimental to my child(ren)'s learning of the Faith which includes full participation in Mass.

Listen to Puzzleannie especially here, she is DRE (Director of Religious Eduction) in her Parish, she knows what she is talking about!

Brenda V.
 
We call it “Child Church” at our parish but it is the Children’s Liturgy of the Word as per the description given. So is there anywhere that says what is to be done with the CLOW? Or is it up to the pastor and leader?
 
It sound’s like the leader of this group is wanting it to be a Catechism class. (I know that feeling very well - I, too, am tempted to turn absolutely everything into a Catechism class.)

Maybe some outlet for this lady’s talents should be provided - perhaps during Sunday afternoon, or on a weekday after school - and then have someone else who is more gifted in Children’s Liturgy to undertake this program.

Easier said than done, I know, but it might be worth suggesting this to the pastor, and figure out a way to kindly redirect this woman’s obvious enthusiasm toward a more appropriate outlet.
 
T1Catholic said:
We call it “Child Church” at our parish but it is the Children’s Liturgy of the Word as per the description given. So is there anywhere that says what is to be done with the CLOW? Or is it up to the pastor and leader?
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yes there are very specific guidelines. If it is not going to run the way it is supposed to be, it should be abandoned. the teaching is supposed to be in the nature of a homily geared to a child’s understanding, not a formal catechetical session, not a video, not a craft or coloring activity, not faith-sharing.

I would never institute it, it was here when I came and I have to live with it, but it is not part of CCD (my responsibility). I made it my business to make sure they are using orthodox materials, insist the children return on time, and that the leaders are qualified, otherwise I stay out of it. I tolerate it because at many Masses due to who is doing the readings and the homily (unfortunately our pastor cannot bilocate so he does not preach at every Mass) the message is nearly incomprehensible to children (and often to me.) Fortunately our lectors are undergoing training now so that should improve in the near future.

There is no law that says you have to allow your child to leave when the other children are called out. But it is your responsibility to discuss the Sunday readings with them, help them understand the message at their level, and as a family work on ways to apply it in daily life. It is also your responsibility to teach them what is going on at Mass, how to behave, and why. We cannot do that in CCD, we don’t take them to Mass, you do.
 
T1Catholic said:
I really need some help. We have a new leader heading up our Sunday School/Child Church program who has changed things so that the kids stay out of the mass the entire time. She felt it was necessary in order to go through the various materials they had. I spoke to her and Father today and while he does believe that the kids should come back after the Gospel and Homily, he had to compromise with this new leader. So is it ok to have the kids (ages 4-7) out for the entire mass? Am I making something out of nothing? I went and got my kids out just after the homily but other parents approached me aftrer mass to ask why I had a problem with the kids being out of mass. I should mention that once a month, Father will read from the Children’s Bible and we’re having a “Children’s Liturgy” so that is supposed to be the trade-off. Please share with me your thoughts.
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I think this is a prime example of a Priest abdicating his responsibilities. He is in charge. If the teacher is unable to accomplish what needs to be done in a certain period of time, I say cut down on whatthey are doing, and I thought all they did in those situations was provide the readings geared to a childs level of understanding anyway, or get a new teacher who can.

If the Priest truly believes in something, he should not compromise just to keep the peace. Not if it adversely affects the teaching of the faith. Never. He is the Priest. He is the authority, not the teacher.

Children should not miss the entire Mass. How can they ever learn about it and grow to love it if they never experience it apart from once a month as you stated during a Childrens Liturgy?.
 
T1Catholic said:
I really need some help. We have a new leader heading up our Sunday School/Child Church program who has changed things so that the kids stay out of the mass the entire time. She felt it was necessary in order to go through the various materials they had. I spoke to her and Father today and while he does believe that the kids should come back after the Gospel and Homily, he had to compromise with this new leader. So is it ok to have the kids (ages 4-7) out for the entire mass? Am I making something out of nothing? I went and got my kids out just after the homily but other parents approached me aftrer mass to ask why I had a problem with the kids being out of mass. I should mention that once a month, Father will read from the Children’s Bible and we’re having a “Children’s Liturgy” so that is supposed to be the trade-off. Please share with me your thoughts.
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Is your Parish experimenting perhaps with some sort of Protestant Sunady school mentality? . It is very common in Protestant Churches for the children to be completely apart from the congregation for their lessons for the entirity of the service.

If so, then the teacher is completely in error as to what she should be doing. I always understood that if the children weref dismissed for the readings then it was for just that, the readings. They would be read to the kids at a level they could understand… The childrens dismissal was not for the same purpose as with people in the RCIA programs, who are dismissed after the Homily…
 
The more I read these posts and search the past posts the more I realize there is something very wrong with our “Child Church”. First, we don’t even call it “Children’s Liturgy of the Word”. Second, they do not read the Gospel or the readings. They say an opening prayer and then talk about the colouring pages they have and what it’s about. Then they colour and that’s it.

The leader is a woman who was raised Catholic but she was going to her husband’s Protestant church until recently. I’m going to discuss this further with her and our pastor. I know that I’m going to have a lot of opposition because a few mothers told me today how great they thought it was that the kids were away from the mass the whole time. When I told one mom in particular that because we go to mass to celebrate the Eucharist it’s important that the children are there for the Liturgy of the Eucharist, she told me that she goes to mass because of the homilies.

I’m a little worried about rocking the boat because I brought up some things at the school that were not in keeping with Church teaching and I might be developing a reputation as some kind of Church hardliner (my husband says that I have to accept that a lot of people who call themselves Catholic simply do not believe what the Church teaches and they don’t know any better). But I just can’t let this “child church” thing go!
 
This morning at Mass, a young couple with one child - a boy of about 4years old or less - sat across the aisle. The little boy sat on the end so he could watch the priest, the sanctuary etc. And he did just that… with interest and in silence.

Anyway, at the Creed, we all stood and began “We believe…”

This little angel joined right in. There was no prompting from his parents.

His voice was strong 😃 (others could not help but turn to see where the strong tiny voice was coming from)

He stood on the kneeler ("…here I am Lord…"}

He turned often to the center aisle,., he was speaking as much to the congregation as with it.

And the conviction and confidence in those tiny eyes was something to behold. He truly was one of the thousands of angels witnessing the miracle of the Mass.

I will never forget him. If he can do it… well…

.
 
T1Catholic said:
I really need some help. We have a new leader heading up our Sunday School/Child Church program who has changed things so that the kids stay out of the mass the entire time. She felt it was necessary in order to go through the various materials they had. I spoke to her and Father today and while he does believe that the kids should come back after the Gospel and Homily, he had to compromise with this new leader.
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You know, this is one thing that really frosts me. WHY??? does the pastor have to compromise with a lay “leader” – and a new one, at that? He is the priest, not she. He is the one who bears the responsibility for the souls of his flock before God, and he is the one who has the authority commensurate with that responsibility!

He needs to use it, and he needs to gently but firmly put usurpers in their place.

I am not going to stop harping on this: if priests and bishops would sprout backbones and defend the turf that is lawfully theirs and nobody else’s, we will see vocations skyrocket.

So there.

By the way, as a mother, you have not only a right but a DUTY to be concerned about your kids’ religious upbringing, and nobody has the right to traduce your rights as a parent – I don’t care what title they have.
 
According to the Directory for Masses with Children, Chapter 2 “Masses with Adults in Which Children Also Participate”, n. 16 "… Infants who are as yet unable or unwilling to take part in the Mass may be brought in at the end of Mass to be blessed together with the rest of the community. This may be done, for example, if some parish helpers have been taking care of them in a separate area.
“17. … Sometimes, moreover, if the place itself and the nature of the individuals permit, it possibly will be appropriate to celebrate the liturgy of the word, including a homily, with the children in a separate, but not too distant, location. Then, before the eucharistic liturgy begins, the children are led to the place where the adults have meanwhile celebrated their own liturgy of the word.”
 
T1Catholic said:
I really need some help. We have a new leader heading up our Sunday School/Child Church program who has changed things so that the kids stay out of the mass the entire time. She felt it was necessary in order to go through the various materials they had. I spoke to her and Father today and while he does believe that the kids should come back after the Gospel and Homily, he had to compromise with this new leader. So is it ok to have the kids (ages 4-7) out for the entire mass? Am I making something out of nothing? I went and got my kids out just after the homily but other parents approached me aftrer mass to ask why I had a problem with the kids being out of mass. I should mention that once a month, Father will read from the Children’s Bible and we’re having a “Children’s Liturgy” so that is supposed to be the trade-off. Please share with me your thoughts.
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Your leader is in serious error. There is absolutely no reason children should miss the entire mass. No Sunday school can substitute for the Liturgy of the Eucharist. She needs to be shown her error and it should be immediately corrected. Your pastor needs to do his duty to make sure this happens. This is black and white plain wrong, and she has no leg to stand on.

In the meantime, you have a couple of choices. If it was me, I would pull my kid out of the class so he/she could attend mass with me, and I would home school them their RE. Or you could leave the parish for another that actually follows the rules.
 
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