Sundays in Lent

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Tee eff em responds to my question : "If this never-on-Sunday issue is not a Church dogma, then what is it (citation please)?"
Tee eff em decides to Mock the Catholic Church:** “It is folklore, which by definition is un-citable.”**

Hey, TFM, please take it easy on the Catholic Church. This is supposed to be a pro-Catholic forum.

Then TFM invents something to refute me that I didn’t even allege :
I said : "And, I believe that it would be near-Impossible for this to change (hence a dogma)."

And TFM replies : "Your belief is mistaken. The duration of Lent has varied a number of times over the centuries."

I am NOT talking about 1000 years ago. I am speaking about the Church today.
I am pretty-sure that Pope Francis (or any future Pope) will NOT pronounce :** “I have decided that Lent will have 44 days in it.”**
The 40 days has been likened to the 40 days Jesus Christ spent in the Desert fasting.
Any attempt to change that would seem VERY unlikely.

But that is not what TFM sees it :** “The Church currently specifies the season of Lent to span (most of) 44 calendar days.”**
HUH???
Your citation does not state that fact.
From Ash Wednesday to Holy Saturday is 46 days.
Please explain your statement.
 
4love2God
I did not say that the Lenten Requirements were a Church dogma.
I said that NOT counting Sundays (in the 40 days of Lent) is a Church dogma.
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Not counting Sundays during the 40 days of Lent, isn’t dogma either.

Jim
 
tee_eff_em said:
I don’t wann honk my own horn, but – I fast most every Sunday.

Because the Church requires me to do so.

tee
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Not sure what you mean by honking horns but the church does not require you to fast on Sundays,

You are required to fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

You are asked to fast more preferably on Fridays.
 
JimR-OCDS continues the conversation :** “Not counting Sundays during the 40 days of Lent, isn’t dogma either.”**

So, again Jim, what it is (if NOT a Church dogma)?
 
4love2God said:
JimR-OCDS continues the conversation :** “Not counting Sundays during the 40 days of Lent, isn’t dogma either.”**

So, again Jim, what it is (if NOT a Church dogma)?
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It’s a Church tradition to commemorate the 40 days Jesus fasted in the desert.

The Church has changed the requirements of Lent over the course of the years.

In the USA, people 59 years or older do not have to fast on Ash Wednesday or Good Friday, nor do they have to do any peneance during the 40 days of Lent.

However, no Catholic is allowed to deny the the dogma of the Holy Trinity, or the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.

Jim
 
The 40-day fast was originally counted back (every day) from the Friday before Great and Holy Friday, since the following day (Great and Holy Saturday) was the day for solemn baptism.

In Constantinople, the home of the Byzantine Rite, the usual date for solemn baptism was moved a week earlier, to Lazarus Saturday, and the Fast was also moved a week earlier, to its present position in the calendar, beginning on Clean Monday.
 
4love2God said:
Tee eff em responds to my question : "If this never-on-Sunday issue is not a Church dogma, then what is it (citation please)?"
Tee eff em decides to Mock the Catholic Church:** “It is folklore, which by definition is un-citable.”**

Hey, TFM, please take it easy on the Catholic Church. This is supposed to be a pro-Catholic forum.
Click to expand...
I mock no one. :confused: In all charity, as a fellow Catholic, I offer to correct misinformation.

Perhaps, since you are keen to ask for citation, you could provide a citation that NOT counting Sundays (in the 40 days of Lent) is a Church dogma?
And no matter what *ad hominem *attack you may make upon me, I did provide a citation for the duration of Lent. Did you read it?
4love2God said:
Then TFM invents something to refute me that I didn’t even allege :
I said : "And, I believe that it would be near-Impossible for this to change (hence a dogma)."

And TFM replies : "Your belief is mistaken. The duration of Lent has varied a number of times over the centuries."

I am NOT talking about 1000 years ago. I am speaking about the Church today.
I am pretty-sure that Pope Francis (or any future Pope) will NOT pronounce :** “I have decided that Lent will have 44 days in it.”**
The 40 days has been likened to the 40 days Jesus Christ spent in the Desert fasting.
Any attempt to change that would seem VERY unlikely.
Click to expand...
Well, you have me there.

I do not claim to be able to predict what the current nor any future pope might say about the duration of Lent.

But I maintain that you are historically mistaken and further that you provide no support to the assertion that no pope will ever pronounce: "I have decided that Lent will have 44 days in it."
(Heck, Pope Blessed Paul VI practically did say that, though not in so many words!)
4love2God said:
But that is not what TFM sees it :** “The Church currently specifies the season of Lent to span (most of) 44 calendar days.”**
HUH???
Your citation does not state that fact.
From Ash Wednesday to Holy Saturday is 46 days.
Please explain your statement.
Click to expand...
But my citation, had you read it, leads to this statement:
  1. Lent runs from Ash Wednesday until the Mass of the Lord’s Supper exclusive.
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In case it is not clear, the Mass of the Lord’s Supper is celebrated on the evening of Holy Thursday

You can count if you want: From Ash Wednesday until Holy Thursday (even though only *most of *Holy Thursday falls in Lent, let us avoid fractional days). If your count includes Sundays, it will equal 44. If it excludes Sundays, it will equal 38. (If it excludes Sundays and the Solemnity of St Joseph, it will equal 37. If it also excludes the Solemnity of the Annunciation, it will equal 36) None of these counts is equal to 40.

I can be no clearer than that.

tee
 
Nelka said:
Not sure what you mean by honking horns but the church does not require you to fast on Sundays,
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It is correct that the Church does not *absolutely *require me to fast on Sundays.

She only requires me to do so on Sundays (and any other day) on which I wish to partake the eucharist.

tee
 
One lent we continued our penance even on Sunday.
It was a breeze

The next year we took Sunday off.

It was much harder.

It was easier to give it up completely than have a day that we could do it then the next day we couldn’t.

It is up to the individual. If I want to make it harder, I leave Sunday out of it.
 
I also like to read the New Testament during Lent although I leave Acts for the week after Easter Sunday and up to Divine Mercy Sunday.
 
4love2God said:
kgerber20 says : "it seems like Sundays during Lent are still an appropriate time for some amount of penance… And if we give up something for Lent, knowing we can just indulge on Sunday, it doesn’t seem like that much of a sacrifice."

The Church has a DOGMA : Sundays are NOT part of the 40 days of Lent.
And, that we should celebrate on those Sundays.
Part of that celebration is NOT treating the Sunday as a day of Lent.

So, any Catholic who obeys that Dogma, is in good stead with Church teachings.
Those Catholics who rebuff the Church’s teachings, are in rebellion.

And, if it doesn’t SEEM like a sacrifice to take Sundays off during Lent, please remember, that God thinks like God, and people think like people.
Many people find some of the Church teachings and Dogmas annoying (or confusing, or whatever).
This is OK. But obeying the Church is a good thing in itself.
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I am Byzantine Catholic and we preserve a more traditional schedule, but the actual mandatory fast and abstinence days are reduced. The count was originally 40 days, seven days a week, in preparation for the day the Catechumens were initiated.

The fasting is traditional for M-F in Lent (starting on Clean Monday instead of Ash Wednesday), and for M-F days in Holy Week, plus Holy Saturday, but excluding the Assumption and other Saturdays and all Sundays. That makes 30 days of traditional fast (no meals or only one meal) in six week Lent, and days in Holy Week. (Subtract Annunciation if it occurs.) Saturday and Sunday traditionally allowed two meals during this period, which are 11 days including the weekend between Lent and Holy Week of Lazarus Saturday and Palm Sunday, but excluding Holy Saturday. Grand total of 47 days.
 
adrift said:
Correction
If I want to make the penance harder, I exclude Sunday as a day of penance.
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really? i have found the opposite to be true… 🤷

what do you guys do on solemnities (ie march 19/25)?
 
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