Suspected Lesbian Students Sue Christian School For Expulsion

[b_justb]

RIVERSIDE, Calif. — Two 16-year-olds who were expelled from a Lutheran high school because they were suspected of being lesbians have sued the school for invasion of privacy and discrimination.

The lawsuit, filed last week in Riverside County Superior Court, seeks the girls’ re-enrollment at the small California Lutheran High School, unspecified damages and an injunction barring the school from excluding gays and lesbians.

Kirk D. Hanson, an attorney for the girls, said the expulsion traumatized and humiliated them.

“Their entire support network was pulled out from under them because of suspicions about their sexual orientation,” said Hanson, who declined to say whether his clients are lesbians.

more ]

 

[Jeffrey]

You know… its a Christian school. they teach AGAINST that type of behaviour? What did they expect? Maybe they shoulda asked thier parents to send them to that all homo school in NYC.

b_justb:

RIVERSIDE, Calif. — Two 16-year-olds who were expelled from a Lutheran high school because they were suspected of being lesbians have sued the school for invasion of privacy and discrimination.

The lawsuit, filed last week in Riverside County Superior Court, seeks the girls’ re-enrollment at the small California Lutheran High School, unspecified damages and an injunction barring the school from excluding gays and lesbians.

Kirk D. Hanson, an attorney for the girls, said the expulsion traumatized and humiliated them.

“Their entire support network was pulled out from under them because of suspicions about their sexual orientation,” said Hanson, who declined to say whether his clients are lesbians.

more ]

 

[Traditional_Ang]

b_justb:

RIVERSIDE, Calif. — Two 16-year-olds who were expelled from a Lutheran high school because they were suspected of being lesbians have sued the school for invasion of privacy and discrimination.

The lawsuit, filed last week in Riverside County Superior Court, seeks the girls’ re-enrollment at the small California Lutheran High School, unspecified damages and an injunction barring the school from excluding gays and lesbians.

Kirk D. Hanson, an attorney for the girls, said the expulsion traumatized and humiliated them.

“Their entire support network was pulled out from under them because of suspicions about their sexual orientation,” said Hanson, who declined to say whether his clients are lesbians.

more ]

The URL is as follows - foxnews.com./story/0,2933,180146,00.html - one of the “http://'s” needs to be deleted.

Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Brothers and Sisters:

I noticed the following passage in the article:

*The lawsuit alleges that the school’s principal, Gregory Bork, called the girls into his office, grilled them on their sexual orientation and “coerced” one girl into saying she loved the other.

The next day, the lawsuit says, Bork told the girls’ parents they could not stay at the school with “those feelings.” In a Sept. 12 letter to the parents, Bork acknowledged that officials had seen no physical contact between the girls but said their friendship was “uncharacteristic of normal girl relationships and more characteristic of a lesbian one.”

“Such a relationship violates our Christian Code of Conduct,” Bork wrote in his letter, which was included as an exhibit in the lawsuit. He called the girls’ behavior “scandalous” and “immoral.”*

foxnews.com./story/0,2933,180146,00.html

If the school officials had seen no physical contact between the two, I see no reason for the action unless they had very good evidence the 2 were having sexual relations outside of school (That would be a violation of any moral standard of conduct for a Christian school).

By the same token, it would be an absolute travesty and a violation of the 1st Amendment prohibition against the making of laws infringing on the FREE EXERCISE OF RELIGION.

I want to make sure that Catholics understand this. Because of the possibility of a new limit to the 1st Amendment guarantee of Freedom of Religion based upon “the need to preserve” a right never envisioned by the framers of the Constititution, we do have a stake in this, and we don’t want the 2 Lesvians to win, even though it appears the school was in the wrong.

Any other result would risk losing a right that’s actually defined in the Constitution, that of Freedom of Religion, in order to serve and protect one that isn’t derived from a penumbra of rights, that of privacy and sexual orientation.

If the girls and their attorneys win, it’s conceivable that priests and other preachers could be prohibited from preaching the Biblical doctrine regarding the sinfulness of Homosexual Sexual Activity. That would mean mean that Gays would never hear that God intends something better for them than to be stuck in their sinful lifestyles.

In Christ, Michael

 

[soulspeak23]

Jeffrey:

You know… its a Christian school. they teach AGAINST that type of behaviour? What did they expect? Maybe they shoulda asked thier parents to send them to that all homo school in NYC.

Well, if they’re gonna go after the “supposed” lasbians, then they need to find all the straight kids in that school who are engaging in premarital sex and expel them too. I’m sure they’ll have a FAR lower attendance the day after they pull that one.

Also, I can practiacally feel your hatred through the computer. You might wanna get that checked out.

 

[gilliam]

soulspeak23:

Well, if they’re gonna go after the “supposed” lasbians, then they need to find all the straight kids in that school who are engaging in premarital sex and expel them too. I’m sure they’ll have a FAR lower attendance the day after they pull that one.

Not if it is a private school they don’t. And we don’t want the government telling private schools what to teach as far as morals is concerned… and come to think of it, you shouldn’t either.

 

[Robert_Bay]

WARNING

1. Pejorative terms should not be used in the forum (from either side of an arguement)
2. Remember this is a Catholic forum and those who are not Catholic or who do not like what the Catholic Church teaches need to respect this forum and the posters who do.

Please review the Forum Guidelines before posting.

Those who continue to violate the rules will have their accounts suspended. If you have a question about the rules, please PM me.

God Bless,
Robert

 

[Digger71]

Jeffrey:

You know… its a Christian school. they teach AGAINST that type of behaviour? What did they expect? Maybe they shoulda asked thier parents to send them to that all homo school in NYC.

‘suspected’.

Great example of ‘love the sinner hate the sin’.

 

[soulspeak23]

gilliam:

Not if it is a private school they don’t. And we don’t want the government telling private schools what to teach as far as morals is concerned… and come to think of it, you shouldn’t either.

I’m not trying to tell anyone what to teach. Just trying to point out that if they’re handing out expulsions for supposition of lesbianism, they should also expel based on the supposition of premarital sex, which, I presume, is also taught at a Catholic institution. I would assume that lots of straight couples may walk around holding hands or something outrageous like that and it could be supposed that they might be having premarital sex.

 

[tamccrackine]

I personally feel that if a school has reason to suspect immoral behavior, they have every right to question the students… especially if it’s a private school with specific moral guidelines. But the school has to be very careful in what they suspect… I’d be moritified if my DD was pulled in with one of her friends and questioned and the question was “do you loving feelings for your friend” and she was expelled based off her answer of yes. (I know, not EXACLTY how things happened for these two). I love my friends, both guy and gal, but that doesn’t mean I’m a lesbian.

And for two students that are holding hands… yes, there is reason to suspect they might be doing something, but I think it fair to say that if that’s all they’re doing, I’ll be happy. I’m not going to jump a gun and be suspicious just because two teens are holding hands…

It’s hard to understand some situations now adays because certain groups have inflamed so much to get their way. It’s a shame when they just can’t speak the truth.
just my two cents worth

 

[Digger71]

tamccrackine:

I personally feel that if a school has reason to suspect immoral behavior, they have every right to question the students…

I’m glad to see high standards of evidence are important to you.

However, I direct you to Romans 14: 1-20

specifically:

13 Then let us no more pass judgment on one another, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.

It was an unchristian act, probably.

 

[tamccrackine]

Digger71:

I’m glad to see high standards of evidence are important to you.

However, I direct you to Romans 14: 1-20

specifically:

13 Then let us no more pass judgment on one another, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.

It was an unchristian act, probably.

thanks for the quote but next time could you not pass judgement on me and assume something so ridiculous as my alleged lack of “high standards for evidence?”

Unless you were personally there, personally witnessed the questioning, personally witnessed what these two alleged lesbians were doing, you don’t know as much as I do based off the information in the article. I said the school had every right to question the girls’ if there was suspected activity. What’s wrong with questioning? (And don’t read into what the particular school in question did… I’m asking a standard, general question).

If the girls’ didn’t act inapporpriately, they have nothing to hide and I say let the courts support them in their endeavors. But if they truely are lesbians, the school has every right to uphold their moral standards. Homosexuality is a disordered behavior and a behavior that shouldn’t be glorified, espeically to teens who are trying to figure out the morality of their sexuality.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

soulspeak23:

Well, if they’re gonna go after the “supposed” lasbians, then they need to find all the straight kids in that school who are engaging in premarital sex and expel them too. I’m sure they’ll have a FAR lower attendance the day after they pull that one.

Also, I can practiacally feel your hatred through the computer. You might wanna get that checked out.

Soulspeak:

You’re making assumptions about the readers’ reactions towards you that are unsupported by any facts and can only be seen as “Flamer Bait” whose only purpose is to incite antagonism.

Hopefully, we are here to have a civil discussion where people might see the love of Christ at work. I just don’t see how that last crack of yours contributed to that.

I hope we can all try to make our points civilly and respectfully without resort to “Flamer Bait” such as that last sentence in your post above.

In Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

soulspeak23:

I’m not trying to tell anyone what to teach. Just trying to point out that if they’re handing out expulsions for supposition of lesbianism, they should also expel based on the supposition of premarital sex, which, I presume, is also taught at a Catholic institution. I would assume that lots of straight couples may walk around holding hands or something outrageous like that and it could be supposed that they might be having premarital sex.

Soulspeak:

Immorality of any kind is a concern for a Christian School. Do you understand the Christian teaching concerning homosexual activity? Do you understand that, according to that teaching, there is no context where it can be sanctioned?

Regarding unmarried heterosexual activity between students - On what basis are you saying that the school would have far fewer in attendence if they expelled students currrently engaged in unmarried hetrosexual sexual activity?

Or, Are you saying that students who did something once and then repented (confessed and returned to a chaste lifestyle) should be expelled as these Lesbian students were? Please note, they’re not denying it in the press report and neither is their attorney.

I wouldn’t expell students who fell into gay sex and repented and returned to a chaste life, and neither would I expel those who fell into heteresexual sex and then repented and returned to a chaste life. The most important thing for me would be the acknowledgement of the sin, repentence and then an attempt to “Not do that sin again”.

I realize the press account is imcomplete and leaves this out, but it seems that the Principal had evidence that wasn’t the case here in the case of the 2 girls that were expelled, and that he wouldn’t have acted if he hadn’t had such clear cut evidence.

Now, I can only support the Principal’s action if he had clear and compelling evidence that the above was the case and that the girls refused to acknowledge that what they were doing was sinful or to repent of the sin when confronted with the sin.

His action would have to be the same if he were confronted with clear and compelling evidence of ongoing sexual activity between any two unmarried students who then refused to achknowledge their sin or repent from it.

I hope this makes my position clear.

In Clear, Michael

 

[Digger71]

tamccrackine:

thanks for the quote but next time could you not pass judgement on me and assume something so ridiculous as my alleged lack of “high standards for evidence?”

‘suspected’?!

 

[Libero]

Not if it is a private school they don’t. And we don’t want the government telling private schools what to teach as far as morals is concerned… and come to think of it, you shouldn’t either.

What does private mean over there? Here it means that you pay for the school, and that they do not have to follow the countries curriculum because of that. I think I am pretty accurate in saying that there are no private Catholic schools. The expulsion of suspected lesbians would be strongly frowned upon here, whether they are lesbain or not, and it does not matter about religion. I don’t think the bishops conference suggests expelling lesbian students.

 

[Digger71]

‘suspected’?!

It’s been pointed out this post was not clear. to clarify…

"The issue I was brining up is that ‘suspected’ is not evidence or proof. We can ‘suspect’ many things, but without evidence the potential for injustice is great.

‘Suspect’ does not even match the civil requirement for evidence which on ‘the balance of probabilities’ is true. Suspect’ covers anything from malicious gossip to a hunch.

It seemed clear to me all of this is summed up with one word ‘Suspect?!’ and could not be considered in violation of the forum rules."

 

[goofyjim]

The operative word here is “suspected”. Are we tro start a witch hunt for all “suspected” gay and lesbian students. We’ll make it impossible for people to show any proper Christian affection such as a chaste hug, yes, even between two men.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

goofyjim:

The operative word here is “suspected”. Are we tro start a witch hunt for all “suspected” gay and lesbian students. We’ll make it impossible for people to show any proper Christian affection such as a chaste hug, yes, even between two men.

goofyjim:

Part of the problem is the article… Time to do a Google Search:

California Lutheran High School
31970 Central Ave. P.O. Box 1570
Wildomar, CA 92595
clhs-chawks.org
Phone: 951-678-7000
Fax: 909-651-0172
Email: office@clhs-chawks.org
More info
valpo.edu/lutheran/lhsdir/california/California-Wildomar.htm

Christian school faces discrimination suit
By: JENNIFER KABBANY - Staff Writer

*At the start of this school year, the faculty suspected that the two students may have had homosexual ideas or might have been intimate with each other, court documents state. The lawsuit does not name the students or parents to protect their privacy, it states.

On Sept. 7, the students were called into a meeting with the principal, the lawsuit states.

“Bork individually and separately interrogated the (students) in a closed room, without the parents’ knowledge or consent … and asked (them) inappropriate and personal questions such as whether they loved one another and were lesbians,” court documents state. “In such a manner, Bork coerced one of the (students) to admit that she ‘loves’ the other.”

The next day, Bork allegedly called the students’ parents and said the school’s board had met and decided the students were not to come back to the school, the lawsuit states. The day after that, the parents confronted Bork in person and by phone, and he responded that the two girls could not stay at Cal Lutheran “with those feelings,” according to the lawsuit.

In a Sept. 15 letter to the students’ parents, Bork wrote that “while there is no open physical contact between the two girls, there is still a bond of intimacy … characteristic of a lesbian (relationship). … Such a relationship is unchristian. To allow the girls to attend (Cal Lutheran) … would send a message to students and parents that we either condone this situation and/or will not do anything about it. That message would not reflect our beliefs and principles.”

Bork goes on to write that the school did not want to seem tolerant to the two alleged lesbian students, as it could lead others into a similar relationship and the school has a spiritual and moral obligation to keep its students from sin.

The parents’ attempts to reverse the decision to expel their daughters were denied in October by the school’s board of directors, the lawsuit states.*

Both the faculty and the board agreed that whatever Principal Bork had was compelling enough to warrant action against the students.

nctimes.com/articles/2005/12/21/news/californian/21_33_4112_20_05.txt

**Teens sue Riverside evangelical school over lesbian suspicions **

*Bork said a parent of another child told him that the girls showed other students photos of them "posed in suggestive positions."

“Such a relationship violates our Christian Code of Conduct,” Bork wrote in his letter, included as an exhibit in the lawsuit. He called the girls’ behavior “scandalous” and “immoral.”*

signonsandiego.com/news/state/20051230-0004-ca-studentsexpelled.html

This is the one thing I’ve seen that would definitely justify Suspension or Expulsion. This would also apply to HETEROSEXUAL teenagers who showed the same sort of pictures of themselves. This is probably what the faculty saw or heard and what convinced the board of directors to back Principal Bork.

Lawsuit Filed Against Private Lutheran School over Lesbian Expulsions
christianpost.com/article/society/2128/section/lawsuit.filed.against.private.lutheran.school.over.lesbian.expulsions/1.htm

Expelled lesbians sue Christian high school
Girls, parents claim discrimination, invasion of privacy
worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48025

The History of California Lutheran High School
clhs-chawks.org/clhs_history.htm

With the exception of the two articles I commented on (and esp. the second one which said that a parent reported something), most of the articles danced around what evidence Principal Bork actually had. We can assume the writers and editors of the other articles knew about the suggestive pictures and chose to leave them out.

This means the faculty, Principal Bork and the Board of Directors had real evidence and not just the vague suspicion the writers of many of the articles seems to want us to believe was all he had.

I believe this has to put this in a different light.

In Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

‘suspected’?!

Digger:

Regarding “Suspected?!” - Please read the two articles I linked and commented on in my last post. I think you’ll agree that they had real evidence and not just some vague “Suspicions”.

A Google search may very well have confirmed every one’s worst fears about this school and demonstrated that the Principal and board of directors only had unfounded suspicions about the two students. But, The articles could have been posted and linked, and we coud have read them and come to the appropriate conclusion without the rancor we’ve seen here during the past few days.

May I ask why such a rancorous and unchristian argument was allowed to continue when a few keystrokes to get the needed information would most probably would have brought it to an end?

Were we really afraid the additional information would prove us wrong about this case, whatever our view?

What about new believers and unbelievers who see this discussion - What do you think they’ll think, seeing our lack of charity and civility?

Please, let’s start the New Year by making the Mods job a little easier and try to avoid these rancorous arguments, at least for a couple of weeks.

In Christ, Michael