Swedish rescue

[debbie_h]

www.mormonthink.com/glossary/swedish-rescue2.htm
A very interesting read indeed. Certainly nothing I was told about growing up LDS.

 

[iepuras]

Definitely. By the time the Swedish rescue became the talk of ex Mormons, I had read about all the issues with the LDS church. I was not surprised by the issues the Swedes brought up, but I was greatly impressed with their honest inquiry and their courage to stand up and question.

I was greatly disturbed by the strong-arm tactics used by LDS church leadership after the meeting. I had a hint of it when we were surprised by our elders quorum president and stake president when they showed up at our house unannounced (10 minutes after we got home from Mass). I don’t think they were expecting us to bring up all the issues we did. There were some ward members who thought I was offended by something related to my son’s birthday party (I was not offended), so they were expecting to talk about offense over that. What they got was our offense over Joseph Smith, polygamy/polyandry, misuse of tithing funds, etc. The EQ president looked like a deer in the headlights. The SP did the best he could and tried not to be a jerk about it. After they left, my husband and I looked at each other and said that we could never go back.

The Swedish LDS church members must have had a similar feeling after the rescue meeting. They couldn’t go back.

 

[taylorf]

Once I read about this and listened to the recording back in July, I knew I was done with the church and was never going back. If the church historian and his minion couldn’t provide at least barely plausible explanations to these questions, I knew no one was ever going to be able to. At least the church sent official representatives rather than some knuckleheads from its thug mercenary army, FAIR.

The worst part of this meeting wasn’t Jensen and Turley’s inability to answer questions, but was the obvious agenda of squashing this small rebellion. The wasted first hour of talking about the ‘spirit of the devil’, then only a short time stumbling through a few questions, and then concluding for an hour with the story of Korihor, with an invitation to stay (and conform) or leave.

After that nonsense, I would have resigned on the spot.

 

[iepuras]

Once I read about this and listened to the recording back in July, I knew I was done with the church and was never going back. If the church historian and his minion couldn’t provide at least barely plausible explanations to these questions, I knew no one was ever going to be able to. At least the church sent official representatives rather than some knuckleheads from its thug mercenary army, FAIR.

The worst part of this meeting wasn’t Jensen and Turley’s inability to answer questions, but was the obvious agenda of squashing this small rebellion. The wasted first hour of talking about the ‘spirit of the devil’, then only a short time stumbling through a few questions, and then concluding for an hour with the story of Korihor, with an invitation to stay (and conform) or leave.

After that nonsense, I would have resigned on the spot.

It was obvious with all the time spent on the ‘spirit of the devil’ and Korihor that they had no intention of answering any questions. They wanted to draw out the troublemakers and get rid of them. They cannot handle any of the serfs declaring the emperor has no clothes.

 

[Brandon_Cal]

Has anyone taken the time to actually read the transcripts? I feel sorry for those Swedes who wasted their time in hopes of actual answers rather than evasions. Elders Jensen’s and Tulrey’s “answers” to every single one of those 15 questions could be summed up as one of the following:

• “I’d love to give you an answer but it would take too long and we just don’t have the time.”
• “Great question! We’re currently working on something that will totally knock your socks off so please stay tuned to the Maxwell Institute, FARMS, and BYU in the future for an answer!”
• “I hope the Lord will one day provide an answer.”
• “Just have faith.”

What was even the point in traveling all the way to Sweden if they weren’t going to actually answer an questions?

 

[Brandon_Cal]

At least the church sent official representatives rather than some knuckleheads from its thug mercenary army, FAIR.

How much better was it if the scant few times they did attempt to provide a substantive answer they just referred the members to FAIR, Maxwell Institute, etc.?

The worst part of this meeting wasn’t Jensen and Turley’s inability to answer questions, but was the obvious agenda of squashing this small rebellion. The wasted first hour of talking about the ‘spirit of the devil’, then only a short time stumbling through a few questions, and then concluding for an hour with the story of Korihor, with an invitation to stay (and conform) or leave.

After that nonsense, I would have resigned on the spot.

Tell me about it! As I just pointed out in my last post I lost count of the number of times Elder Turley said something along the lines of “There’s more to say about this, but we just don’t have the time for it.” and yet the brethren found time to blather on about a Book of Mormon story, or strike fear in them about the Devil’s work.

Though I wasn’t the intended audience I feel intellectually insulted after reading that claptrap.

 

[debbie_h]

Tell me about it! As I just pointed out in my last post I lost count of the number of times Elder Turley said something along the lines of “There’s more to say about this, but we just don’t have the time for it.” and yet the brethren found time to blather on about a Book of Mormon story, or strike fear in them about the Devil’s work.

Though I wasn’t the intended audience I feel intellectually insulted after reading that claptrap.

Yep! & it’s Very frustrating to know that too many people out there are satisfied with these wishy washy “answers”.

 

[iepuras]

Though I wasn’t the intended audience I feel intellectually insulted after reading that claptrap.

I read the transcripts when they first made their way to the internet. I agree, the whole thing was very insulting. The sad thing is that the good people in Sweden were trusting their leaders and giving them the benefit of the doubt. They just wanted honest answers and didn’t get that. Instead they got non-answers and the demand to fall into line and keep quiet or leave.

I am disheartened with all the people who accept what is fed to them even when stories like these because so public.

 

[taylorf]

Has anyone taken the time to actually read the transcripts?

What was even the point in traveling all the way to Sweden if they weren’t going to actually answer an questions?

Have you listened to the audio as well? It makes the whole meeting even worse, especially when Turley is trying to answer/avoid the question “do we still believe in polygamy?” It was terribly embarrassing and his tone was infuriating to me.

You can tell the point was not to answer questions, but was to silence the ‘apostate’ discussion. The wasted time during the meeting, the apparent lack of preparation by Jensen and Turley, and the good cop/bad cop roles of Jensen, Turley, and Kopischke, I think, prove that agenda.

How much better was it if the scant few times they did attempt to provide a substantive answer they just referred the members to FAIR, Maxwell Institute, etc.?

The end result wasn’t any better, but I was trying to give them a little credit for sending actual church reps. Everything apologetic from the LDS community is riddled with the disclaimer that the material does not represent the “official” position of the church. Despite the official reps, I agree the meeting was an abysmal failure.

 

[debbie_h]

I am disheartened with all the people who accept what is fed to them even when stories like these because so public.

That is because any truths that put the LDS in a bad light is regarded as anti-Mormon & as you would know, we were taught to stay away from these ‘works of the devil’ & only trust & accept official LDS teachings & material.