Symbolic Baptism

[ecstasyofavila]

Hello!
There’s a common argument for a symbolic baptism: Matthew 3:11: “I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." This implies that baptism with water and Baptism with the holy Spirit are two separate events. Can anyone help me with this, please?
Thank you, God bless

 

[Lucretius]

The simplest response is that there are multiple ways to interpret this passage, that are clearly not forced, that are perfectly in lined with the Catholic teachings.

For example, some interpret the passage as referring to how the saved shall be immersed in the water of repentance, while the damned in the fire, by the Holy Spirit.

Another, more obvious interpretation, is that St. John the Forerunner is referring to Pentacost.

Christi pax.

 

[Gorgias]

Hello!
There’s a common argument for a symbolic baptism: Matthew 3:11: “I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." This implies that baptism with water and Baptism with the holy Spirit are two separate events.

No… this implies that they can be two separate events, not that they necessarily are. What if a particular baptism with water isn’t just “for repentance”, but also is a baptism “with the Holy Spirit and fire”? In that case, the water baptism is the baptism in the Spirit that John spoke of!

 

[De_Maria]

Hello!
There’s a common argument for a symbolic baptism: Matthew 3:11: “I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." This implies that baptism with water and Baptism with the holy Spirit are two separate events. Can anyone help me with this, please?
Thank you, God bless

I hope so.

The problem is Sola Scriptura. Those Protestants who read that passage do not recognize that the Traditions which Jesus Christ passed down by word are the basis of the Gospels and the entire New Testament. They have to make up their own context to make heads or tails of it. That is why you have so many versions of the doctrine of baptism in Protestantism. Baptismal regeneration, covenantal baptism, salvation occasion, believer’s baptism and rejection of baptism.

Therefore, they take this verse in isolation and read into it whatever they are predisposed to believe.

But we know that Jesus Christ established a Church and commanded the Church to Teach all that He commanded throughout the world. And to Baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

So, did the Church Teach that there were two separate Baptisms?

Ephesians 4:5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

No.

Did the Church Teach that water Baptism was effective in washing away sins?

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Yes.

Did the Church Teach that water Baptism was regenerative?

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Yes.

I hope that helps.

 

[ecstasyofavila]

Oh, I forgot: Another verse in particular confused me. 1 Peter 3:21: Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

This makes it sound as if Baptism does not remove sins. Is that what this verse is trying to say?

 

[pianistclare]

What is sin, but removal of dirt from the soul?
You’re way overthinking this.

 

[De_Maria]

Oh, I forgot: Another verse in particular confused me. 1 Peter 3:21: Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

This makes it sound as if Baptism does not remove sins. Is that what this verse is trying to say?

No. You need to study Sacred Tradition. Sacred Tradition is the basis of the New Testament.

Here’s the Doctrine of Baptism from the Catechism.

694 Water. The symbolism of water signifies the Holy Spirit’s action in Baptism, since after the invocation of the Holy Spirit it becomes the efficacious sacramental sign of new birth: just as the gestation of our first birth took place in water, so the water of Baptism truly signifies that our birth into the divine life is given to us in the Holy Spirit. As “by one Spirit we were all baptized,” so we are also “made to drink of one Spirit.” Thus the Spirit is also personally the living water welling up from Christ crucified as its source and welling up in us to eternal life.

I hope that answers your question.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Matthew 3:11

Matthew 3:11 is about John the Baptist. His baptism was not the sacramental Trinitarian baptism later instituted by Christ, it was only a foreshadowing of it. Christ is “who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.”

 

[ecstasyofavila]

Thank you, this helps so much!

 

[exnihilo]

Baptism or washing was a not uncommon practice then. John is simply prophesizing that the Baptism of Jesus will accomplish so much more. A sacrament involves something physical which confers a spiritual gift. As the Baltimore Catechism says, ‘a Sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace.‘ Baptism is real in that a physical act takes place and something real which is spiritual occurs. The symbolism is in the washing but it is not merely symbolic.

 

[PJM]

John 3: 5 " John.3: 5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Matt.28: 19 to 20 "[YOU] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded YOU; and lo, I am with Y YOU always, to the close of the age.

So the essential conditions for a Valid Christian Baptism requires BOTH waster and the Holy Spirit

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[BroIgnatius]

Yes, the Church says that we are baptized with the Holy Spirit when we are baptized in water, and at that time given the 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit found in Isaiah 11:2-3. And then are further affirmed by the Holy Spirit in the Sacrament of Confirmation. There is no other baptism ( initiation) of the Holy Spirit has we already have Him upon Baptism and Confirmation.