Syro-Malabar first communion etc

[AXO]

Do you continue with these practices? I have seen some photos, even with the presence of Bishops.

 

[Medical_Student]

Unfortunately, yes. Especially in the US. Not just us either-the Copts as well-in Egypt even!

 

[Dmitri77]

Unfortunately, yes. Especially in the US. Not just us either-the Copts as well-in Egypt even!

What are you talking about exactly and why is it unfortunate?

 

[Thomas48]

To contest what my friend said, first communion is no longer a Latinization in the Syro Malabar Church. All three sacraments are given at once in return to the East Syriac nature of the Church. I am not sure where brother medical student is located but perhaps it has not spread to his diocese yet but for the last 5-10 years the seperation of the first three sacraments has been removed.

 

[kdbueno]

It’s interesting, garnering the facts to consider. Syro-Malabar is in the verge of understanding the complete truth regarding the moral Holy See.

 

[AXO]

To contest what my friend said, first communion is no longer a Latinization in the Syro Malabar Church. All three sacraments are given at once in return to the East Syriac nature of the Church.

It’s not my intention to contradict you, but I’ve seen a bunch of pages which announce ceremonies of “First Holy Communion and Confirmation” for children at the age of reason, together with videos not long ago (youtube.com/watch?v=Zby6f5Nv2rc, where we can see the Major Archbishop chrismating) and even opposition from inside (ucanews.com/story-archive/?post_name=/2005/01/20/some-oppose-new-sacramental-changes-in-syromalabar-church&post_id=25294). Is this minimal? Thanks.

 

[Thomas48]

It’s not my intention to contradict you, but I’ve seen a bunch of pages which announce ceremonies of “First Holy Communion and Confirmation” for children at the age of reason, together with videos not long ago (youtube.com/watch?v=Zby6f5Nv2rc, where we can see the Major Archbishop chrismating) and even opposition from inside (ucanews.com/story-archive/?post_name=/2005/01/20/some-oppose-new-sacramental-changes-in-syromalabar-church&post_id=25294). Is this minimal? Thanks.

Your fine my friend, what you are seeing with these “First Communions” are children who were baptized before the sacramental revision to the East Syriac Rite was implemented. The revision took place about 5-10 years ago, so for the children who were baptized before the change took place, they still recieve the sacraments separately, in the Latin way. For the new generation of children born when the change was implemented, they receive the sacraments in the Eastern way (all three at once, usually as an infant). In a sense the Church is trying to “finish off” the Latinization and wait for the last generation to complete the required sacraments.

As for the opposition, the Syro Malabar Church is much like a confederation of states. Our states (Archdiocese’ and their suffragans) do not always agree on changes made by the synod. It’s not necessarily the bishops that disagree but the people of the diocese that do not accept the change. As slavery was to the states of Civil War America, restoration of the East Syriac Rite is to the Archdiocese’ of the Syro Malabar Church. Usually these issues lie within the older original Archdiocese’ of the Church. So basically you have five, Ernakulam-Angamaly (Major-Archeparchy), Changanassery (Archdicoese), Kottayam (Archdiocese), Thrissur (Archdiocese), and the last is Tellicherry (Archdiocese) which can be excluded for the reason that it is new and in a sense more obedient.

What you’ll see happening on issues of restoration in the Syro Malabar Church is Kottayam Archdiocese (Knanaya) and Changanassery Archdiocese spear heading movements back to our original East Syriac nature. At the same time you have Ernakulam - Angamaly the Major Archeparchy unwilling to make changes to Latinizations and to my knowledge Thrissur Archdiocese has always been the middle ground on the revolving issue.

 

[yawsep1569]

Your fine my friend, what you are seeing with these “First Communions” are children who were baptized before the sacramental revision to the East Syriac Rite was implemented. The revision took place about 5-10 years ago, so for the children who were baptized before the change took place, they still recieve the sacraments separately, in the Latin way. For the new generation of children born when the change was implemented, they receive the sacraments in the Eastern way (all three at once, usually as an infant). In a sense the Church is trying to “finish off” the Latinization and wait for the last generation to complete the required sacraments.

As for the opposition, the Syro Malabar Church is much like a confederation of states. Our states (Archdiocese’ and their suffragans) do not always agree on changes made by the synod. It’s not necessarily the bishops that disagree but the people of the diocese that do not accept the change. As slavery was to the states of Civil War America, restoration of the East Syriac Rite is to the Archdiocese’ of the Syro Malabar Church. Usually these issues lie within the older original Archdiocese’ of the Church. So basically you have five, Ernakulam-Angamaly (Major-Archeparchy), Changanassery (Archdicoese), Kottayam (Archdiocese), Thrissur (Archdiocese), and the last is Tellicherry (Archdiocese) which can be excluded for the reason that it is new and in a sense more obedient.

What you’ll see happening on issues of restoration in the Syro Malabar Church is Kottayam Archdiocese (Knanaya) and Changanassery Archdiocese spear heading movements back to our original East Syriac nature. At the same time you have Ernakulam - Angamaly the Major Archeparchy unwilling to make changes to Latinizations and to my knowledge Thrissur Archdiocese has always been the middle ground on the revolving issue.

Sadly, that is not always the case. Medical Student is correct. In the US, there are some parishes (a minority), directly contradicting the directive and continuing to separate the three sacraments. I can’t speak for the Knanayas, but I doubt it’s much different. On a positive note, we just had previously baptized children receive ‘First Holy Communion’ and ‘Confirmation’ together at our church! One small win in the fight against Latinization.

 

[Thomas48]

Sadly, that is not always the case. Medical Student is correct. In the US, there are some parishes (a minority), directly contradicting the directive and continuing to separate the three sacraments. I can’t speak for the Knanayas, but I doubt it’s much different. On a positive note, we just had previously baptized children receive ‘First Holy Communion’ and ‘Confirmation’ together at our church! One small win in the fight against Latinization.

Thank you for this information, I did not know this was an issue in the St. Thomas Syro Malabar Diocese of Chicago as well (which seemed very Pro-Syraic to me) but it only makes sense because here you have diaspora from all the Archdiocese’ of Kerala clustered in one. Disputes are likely to arise but lets pray we keep winning these battles.

 

[thephilosopher6]

Thank you for this information, I did not know this was an issue in the St. Thomas Syro Malabar Diocese of Chicago as well (which seemed very Pro-Syraic to me) but it only makes sense because here you have diaspora from all the Archdiocese’ of Kerala clustered in one. Disputes are likely to arise but lets pray we keep winning these battles.

I know I’m a little late to this thread, and this is slightly irrelevant, but have the Syro-Malabar returned to the ancient practice of ad orientem?

 

[Thomas48]

I know I’m a little late to this thread, and this is slightly irrelevant, but have the Syro-Malabar returned to the ancient practice of ad orientem?

Its a 50/50 split (more like 30/70 really because majority of the time is spent ad orienten) meaning the Qurbana until the liturgy of the word is celebrated versus populum at the bema which is the smaller table in front of the altar. After the liturgy of the word, the priest climbs the three steps to the madbaha or sanctuary, and continues the Qurbana at the altar ad orientem. Later for the final blessing and closing prayer, the priest climbs down the steps and ends the Qurbana at the bema versus populum. But once again just like the sacrament question, it all depends on whether the archdiocese in question is Pro-Syriac or Pro-Latin. However the correct order of the Qurbana is the 50/50 split as explained above. Though, to my knowledge even the Pro-Latin diocese are coming to accept this restoration.