Tabernacle

[rwoehmke]

By the by some dioceses including ours have recently remodeled or built a new Cathedral. Not a little heat gets expressed between factions who want to do it one way as opposed to another. In our remodel which was badly needed they did obtain a new presiders chair costing somewhere in excess of $10,000. Makes one wonder where the focus is.

 

[msproule]

paramedicgirl:

Our current priest says there is so much talking and noise in our church before and after Mass, he thinks the side chapel is a safer place for the Blessed Sacrament. He doesn’t want to expose it to any abuses from all the irreverence of the lack of sacred silence in the main church.

Alternatively, your priest could begin by catechizing the faithful on the need for sacred silence! Or, perhaps he is like my home parish’s pastor, who thinks it is great to have a nave that is treated like a gymnasium…

 

[pm1853]

MrS:

Yep… me too. There is a local parish which has just moved to the center, and then replaced its tabernacle… custom made in Italy. I hear it is nothing short of awesome. I will try to get a picture of it to post. The pastor’s desire was that anyone who will ever enter this church (St Thomas the Apostle, in Ann Arbor Mi) will know it is CATHOLIC.

That about says it all. If the tabernacle has been moved, the first response should be WHY?

Wow. St. Thomas was my old parish. A lot has changed since they got their new pastor (less than 8 months ago). I generally liked masses there. The sanctuary before looked very awkward without anything but the altar and celebrant’s chair. Very plain (though still nice looking). They also got brand new vestments immediately with the new priest didn’t they? (I hadn’t seen them prior to going to mass there in July). Post a picture, I’m very curious.

 

[pm1853]

Forpicture of the tabernacle (I think) go to…

stthomasannarbor.catholicweb.com/

and go to the nov 6 bulletin (pdf file).

If this is the actual tabernacle, I must say its quite nice. For an interesting commentary on its center placement, go to the front page of the most recent bulletin. Very interesting.

---

I’m sorry, I adding this through an edit. The article in the most recent bulletin is a strong argument in favor of the center placement AND an aesthetically pleasing tabernacle.

 

[paramedicgirl]

msproule:

Alternatively, your priest could begin by catechizing the faithful on the need for sacred silence! Or, perhaps he is like my home parish’s pastor, who thinks it is great to have a nave that is treated like a gymnasium…

Believe it or not, this was tried before and it failed! People just don’t get it. Their social needs supercede respect for the Blessed sacrament. It is very discouraging, isn’t it?

 

[msproule]

pm1853:

Forpicture of the tabernacle (I think) go to…

stthomasannarbor.catholicweb.com/

and go to the nov 6 bulletin (pdf file).

Thanks, pm1853! Apparently, I did not go far back enough in the bulletins. I can only assume this is the new tabernacle. I will make it a point to go there in the coming weeks (although I cannot promise a photo ).

 

[msproule]

paramedicgirl:

Believe it or not, this was tried before and it failed! People just don’t get it. Their social needs supercede respect for the Blessed sacrament. It is very discouraging, isn’t it?

It is terribly discouraging ! Alas, the GIRM only “encourages” silence:
45. Sacred silence also, as part of the celebration, is to be observed at the designated times…Even before the celebration itself, it is commendable that silence to be observed in the church, in the sacristy, in the vesting room, and in adjacent areas, so that all may dispose themselves to carry out the sacred action in a devout and fitting manner.
There is a parish near me that, despite years and years of “progress” (as in progressive) and poor catechesis, the tabernacle was never removed from the head of the sanctuary. This may be due to the fact that it is an extremely small church. Anyway, the wonderful new pastor had to contend with a noisy, disrespectful congregation. If he had made the predictably unpopular announcement that silence should be observed prior to Mass, it is doubtful that many would have complied. Instead, he enters the nave five or ten minutes prior to Mass, in full vestments, and kneels to pray in silence before the tabernacle at the edge of the sanctuary. This continues until Mass begins.

From what I have heard, his example has had a profound impact on the behavior of this parish in a very short time.

 

[Elzee]

msproule:

If he had made the predictably unpopular announcement that silence should be observed prior to Mass, it is doubtful that many would have complied. Instead, he enters the nave five or ten minutes prior to Mass, in full vestments, and kneels to pray in silence before the tabernacle at the edge of the sanctuary. This continues until Mass begins.

From what I have heard, his example has had a profound impact on the behavior of this parish in a very short time.

Wow! What an awesome thing to do! God bless this man!

 

[otm]

tradcatmel:

A way to solve this problem.

Go to the latin mass. The tabernacles are always in the centre, does not matter which church in the whole world, it is always the same.

The mass remains the same whether you are in America, Australia, Timbuctoo…its the same mass.

Its the way the Catholic faith was supposed to remain.

Yeah, and if you go to a vernacular Mass, it is the same way too! the Mass remains the same whether you are in Europe, or Asia, or Africa: there is the Liturgy of the Word (amazingly, just like in the Tridentine rite!), then the Offeratory, then the Consecration then Communion (wow, what a coincidence, just like the Tridentine rite!).

And even more interestingly, it is the same whether the tabernacle is in the center of the church, or off to the side, or in a chapel!

 

[Dr.Bombay]

"Talking with your priest about the possibility of returning the tabernacle to its rightful place"

According to the Church in “Sacrosanctum Consilium”, it doesn’t have to be in the center. It has to be “conspicuous”, in a place of obvious honor. In my church, it’s to the immediate left of the Altar. You can’t miss it. You can miss it in other churches I’ve been in, but almost always, those churches have followed the same directive: they’ve placed the Blessed Sacrament in a chapel devoted to It. This isn’t a Vatican II thing, either: if you visit cathedrals in Europe, the Eucharist is almost always reserved in a seperate chapel. So, in the dead middle of the sanctuary isn’t what the *Church *is so much concerned with. That’s said, I don’t see why presider’s chairs have been moved center when we COULD have the Tabernacle in the center. Our pastor just finished our church’s refurbishment (depending on who you talked to, it’s either gaudy or beautiful. Personally, I think it looks way more Catholic), but did NOT move the tabernacle. I think it could have been very easily done. Instead, we have the presider’s chair there -a new one that looks like a throne .

Hey, Kirk. Why don’t you lay this quote on your pastor, from the *GIRM *#310:

“Any appearance of a throne, however, is to be avoided.”

See if he’s a “spirit” or “letter” type guy.

 

[paramedicgirl]

msproule:

It is terribly discouraging ! Alas, the GIRM only “encourages” silence:
45. Sacred silence also, as part of the celebration, is to be observed at the designated times…Even before the celebration itself, it is commendable that silence to be observed in the church, in the sacristy, in the vesting room, and in adjacent areas, so that all may dispose themselves to carry out the sacred action in a devout and fitting manner.
There is a parish near me that, despite years and years of “progress” (as in progressive) and poor catechesis, the tabernacle was never removed from the head of the sanctuary. This may be due to the fact that it is an extremely small church. Anyway, the wonderful new pastor had to contend with a noisy, disrespectful congregation. If he had made the predictably unpopular announcement that silence should be observed prior to Mass, it is doubtful that many would have complied. Instead, he enters the nave five or ten minutes prior to Mass, in full vestments, and kneels to pray in silence before the tabernacle at the edge of the sanctuary. This continues until Mass begins.

From what I have heard, his example has had a profound impact on the behavior of this parish in a very short time.

What an inspiring story and a great example from a holy priest! I wish our tabenacle wasn’t in a side chapel, because that sounds like something our priest would also do to elicit the proper behaviour from the parishioners.

 

[Joysong]

:bowdown2: One of the most awesome verses in the Old Testament are God’s words to Moses in Ex. 25:8, “They shall make a sanctuary for Me, that I may dwell in their midst. This dwelling and all its furnishings you shall make exactly according to the pattern that I will now show you.”

Note well, friends, the initiative to dwell with His people was solely God’s, for who of the Israelites would think to ask of God such an inestimable favor? In His deep love for these people whom He delivered, God was entering into a most sacred blood covenant with them. He prescribed all the details of how to erect His holy dwelling and consecrate His priests. The place of God’s dwelling among them was within a veiled tabernacle called the “Holy of Holies” at the opposite end of the entrance to the meeting tent, similar to most of our churches today.

The brazen altar upon which the animal blood sacrifices were offered for sin was the means of restoring the people to God’s friendship. Whenever a sin was committed, the people came to the priest with their sacrifice, laid their hand upon the animal and confessed their sin. (See Leviticus for more details) The priest offered the sacrifice to God on their behalf. Any Protestants following along, might see the significance of the priest and confession of sins. The people were not to simply to pray to God in the privacy of their own tents and have their sins absolved.

Within the Ark was kept the manna, the tablets of Commandments and the staff of Aaron. Once a year the priest would take the blood of the lamb and sprinkle the mercy seat upon the Ark and make atonement for his and the people’s sins. Yet we know from Leviticus that there were also daily holocausts ordained by God, and the fire of the altar was not permitted to go out. As we read the construction of the meeting tent with the laver for washing the priests hands, the lamp which burned perpetually, the altar and the Holy Tabernacle (Ark), it is easy to identify our present Church sanctuaries as being very much the order God ordained and commanded Moses.

It is most essential we realize that, if it were not for the sacrifice of the altar, there would be no dwelling of Almighty God within the tabernacle among His people. The two are inseparably wedded. Shall we conclude that when the O.T. sacrifice system ended with the death of Christ, that God will no longer dwell with His people? That only the O.T. chosen Israelites were so privileged? That God who initiated His presence among them as His “delight to be among the children of men,” would simply stay in His heaven in the years A.D.? :nope:

The O.T. tabernacle which contained the heavenly bread (manna) as God dwelled among His people, now contains the Bread of Life, made possible by Christ’s blood sacrifice. They are inseparable and should be understood theologically. To relocate the tabernacle to some ornate quiet chapel apart from the altar is to disjoin the concept God was trying to teach His people when He set up the meeting tent. All of His ordinances were to prefigure the sacrifice of Jesus in days to come. Many who have not understood God’s holy plan, have set their human thinking to work, using very grand ideas about having a quiet recluse for prayer, etc. But they greatly err, and I feel that God is not pleased with what they have set their minds to.

You faithful hearts who are disburbed by the moving of your tabernacles from their holy place behind the altar, are the little remnant God may use to effect the rightful change in your own parishes. May He inspire you to understand what I am having a difficult time putting into human words. Read Exodus beginning with the quote I gave you and meditate upon this.

God bless you and be with you all,
Carole

 

[Jakub]

It is my understanding that all new churches and remodels in the Los Angeles Diocese will have Eucharist Chapels…I’m finding it hard to adapt to…

james

 

[mcliffor]

Why is having the tabernacle in the center of the church a distraction during the Mass? How can the Blessed Sacrament be a distraction if it really is the Christ, and therefore the focus of our prayers? If it is a distraction, why was it once Church law that the tabernacle be in the center on the altar? Is it not the most important “object” in the church?

My parish was recently redesigned, and I’m glad to say that the Blessed Sacrament has retained its dignified position in the center of the Church. But this didn’t happen without a fight. I live in the Diocese of Paterson, NJ and I was told that there were documents in existence which “mandated” that he tabernacle be placed on the side away from the main altar and out of the santuary. They said the only reason it wasn’t moved is because of lack of space. Is this true? Is it even possible?

 

[Jakub]

The location option is in the GIRM and depends on the Bishop… it is my understanding that the altar and what occurs there is the main focal point…

james

 

[Chris_Jacobsen]

Where the tabernacle is placed tells one a lot about a parish.

If the tabernacle is in the center, it means that Jesus Christ is central to life of the parish.

If the tabernacle is off to one side it is a warning that Jesus Christ is no longer central to the life of the parish.

A tabernacle outside the church indicates that the parish doesn’t want Jesus Christ a part of its life at all.

I’ve seen a church where the tabernacle started in the center and was gradually moved farther and farther to the side. Eventually the tabernacle was no longer in the church at all.

As the tabernacle moved farther from the center, the teachings of the parish moved farther away from the teachings of the Catholic Church.

 

[otm]

mcliffor:

Why is having the tabernacle in the center of the church a distraction during the Mass? How can the Blessed Sacrament be a distraction if it really is the Christ, and therefore the focus of our prayers? If it is a distraction, why was it once Church law that the tabernacle be in the center on the altar? Is it not the most important “object” in the church?

My parish was recently redesigned, and I’m glad to say that the Blessed Sacrament has retained its dignified position in the center of the Church. But this didn’t happen without a fight. I live in the Diocese of Paterson, NJ and I was told that there were documents in existence which “mandated” that he tabernacle be placed on the side away from the main altar and out of the santuary. They said the only reason it wasn’t moved is because of lack of space. Is this true? Is it even possible?

There is a difference between static presence and active presence. The Eucharist in the tabernacle is static presence, in that the Eucharist has been confected and the Mass is over. It is reserved.

The Mass is active presence, in that Christ is present in the congregation, and then in the Word, and then in the Eucharist through the consecration; He is really present in each, but each presnce is different, and building to His sacramental presence in the Eucharist. Part of the purpose of the Mass is to make Christ present for all in the Sacrament of the Eucharist, and there is a distraction between His presence in the Eucharist confected at a different time, and the act of making Him present through the consecration.

That is in part what has lead to the repositioning of the tabernacle in churches. Additionally, what a lot of people seem unaware of is that for about half the history of the Church, there were no tabernacles at all; they first appeared about 9th to 10th century.

 

[otm]

Chris Jacobsen:

Where the tabernacle is placed tells one a lot about a parish.

If the tabernacle is in the center, it means that Jesus Christ is central to life of the parish.

If the tabernacle is off to one side it is a warning that Jesus Christ is no longer central to the life of the parish.

A tabernacle outside the church indicates that the parish doesn’t want Jesus Christ a part of its life at all.

I’ve seen a church where the tabernacle started in the center and was gradually moved farther and farther to the side. Eventually the tabernacle was no longer in the church at all.

As the tabernacle moved farther from the center, the teachings of the parish moved farther away from the teachings of the Catholic Church.

That makes for a nice personal opinion, but not much more. Our parish has the tabernacle in the chapel, which is off the side of the church as you enter. We also have perpetual adoration and have had for a number of years.

The place of the tabernacle has little or nothing to do with whether or not, or how much, the parish wants Christ in their life.

 

[msproule]

pm1853:

For picture of the tabernacle (I think) go to…stthomasannarbor.catholicweb.com/
and go to the nov 6 bulletin (pdf file).

msproule:

Thanks, pm1853! Apparently, I did not go far back enough in the bulletins. I can only assume this is the new tabernacle. I will make it a point to go there in the coming weeks (although I cannot promise a photo ).

UPDATE:

This past Saturday I stopped by St. Thomas (Ann Arbor) for a few minutes of prayer in front of the new tabernacle. It was impressive, to say the least! I did not have a camera of my own, but I did finally locate some pictures online for everybody to see.

Michael

 

[Giannawannabe]

msproule:

pm1853:

For picture of the tabernacle (I think) go to…stthomasannarbor.catholicweb.com/

and go to the nov 6 bulletin (pdf file).

UPDATE:

This past Saturday I stopped by St. Thomas (Ann Arbor) for a few minutes of prayer in front of the new tabernacle. It was impressive, to say the least! I did not have a camera of my own, but I did finally locate some pictures online for everybody to see.

Michael

Wow. That is absolutely beautiful. It’s reassuring to know that such a church exists in Ann Arbor!!