talking to a JW - why doesn't the Church more actively oppose war?

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Hi,
I am currently talking to a Jehovah’s Witness and could use some help.
I know the Church is not opposed to a just war. But in the case of an un-just war (for example, Pope John Paul II spoke out against the war in Iraq), why doesn’t the Church prevent or forbid its members from participating, as soldiers or otherwise?
My JW friend says that this inaction on the part of the Church is wrong and cowardly.
Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks!
 
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ssr:
Hi,
I am currently talking to a Jehovah’s Witness and could use some help.
I know the Church is not opposed to a just war. But in the case of an un-just war (for example, Pope John Paul II spoke out against the war in Iraq), why doesn’t the Church prevent or forbid its members from participating, as soldiers or otherwise?
My JW friend says that this inaction on the part of the Church is wrong and cowardly.
Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks!
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Catholics are obligated to answer the call to duty, according to the catechism.
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art5.htm

reference 2307-2317

JW’s are passive, theologically. With this understanding, they are successful in avoiding military service. They justify the position with the “turn the other cheek” statement in the Bible. However, they overlook or excuse other passages that support self defense and submission to authority, such as:

Romans 13

1 Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God…

4 But if you do evil, be afraid, for it (authority) does not bear the sword without purpose; it is the servant of God to inflict wrath on the evildoer.

Also, they overlook another passage:

John 18:
10 Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it, struck the high priest’s slave, and cut off his right ear. The slave’s name was Malchus.

11 Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into its scabbard. Shall I not drink the cup that the Father gave me?”

Simon was already carrying the sword. The only reason he would carry a sword is self defense. Also, see how Jesus states that he has a reason for stopping his own defense? He needs to complete the salvation of mankind. So, he cannot let his desciples stop the arrest.

The President argued, not without merit, that war on Iraq (actually its dictator) was and is an act of self defense, as justified in the Bible.

Also, remember that the Church does not keep people from acting on thier conscience. The Catholic soldiers, indeed all of the soldiers who went to war were doing just that, acting on thier free will.

Hope that helps.
Jerry
 
I would rather ask that person why the JW’s doesn’t do much in helping the poor, providing hospitals, feeding the hungry, providing shelter for the homeless, etc.

They are trying to remove the speck from our eyes while they have a BIG LOG on their own eyes! Hypocrites!

Don’t be caught up in their tricks.

Pio
 
They don’t believe in ANY war. Ask them if it was a good and noble thing when our Armed Forces defeated Hitler???
Or would it have been better if we had sat by idle while he exterminated even more Jews?? They will point out that JW’s were also exterminated. That’s sad… but so were many faithful Catholics & Protestant Christians who risked their lives trying to help the Jews.

Ask them if it would be ok to defend themsleves against a robber? Should they come to the aid of their neighbor if he’s being attacked? What’s the difference - that’s what our military does on a larger scale.
 
carol marie:
They don’t believe in ANY war. Ask them if it was a good and noble thing when our Armed Forces defeated Hitler???
Or would it have been better if we had sat by idle while he exterminated even more Jews?? They will point out that JW’s were also exterminated. That’s sad… but so were many faithful Catholics & Protestant Christians who risked their lives trying to help the Jews.

Ask them if it would be ok to defend themsleves against a robber? Should they come to the aid of their neighbor if he’s being attacked? What’s the difference - that’s what our military does on a larger scale. And if they answer no, it’s not ok to defend themselves or, more importantly, help their neighbor then who’s the coward really?
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I agree. My sisters boy-friend who is an elder who is a JW claimed that the war agianst Hitler, JW didn’t participate. That all the JW brothers and sisters “hid” and prayed to Jehovah while everyone else was still fighting. That’s where the 144,000 who are to be saved by God are the Jehovah Witnesses. Lame , huh. Have you noticed that all their kingdom halls have no noticeable windows? Just thought I’d ask.
 
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hlgomez:
I would rather ask that person why the JW’s doesn’t do much in helping the poor, providing hospitals, feeding the hungry, providing shelter for the homeless, etc.

They are trying to remove the speck from our eyes while they have a BIG LOG on their own eyes! Hypocrites!

Don’t be caught up in their tricks.

Pio
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I remember reading something from a Watchtower catalog and it said something like this " why help others when its not going to matter when your judged by Jehovah, it’s you and how you lived your life for him not friends."
 
Thanks for all the replies, they were a great help. The Church is definitely working for peace, and the just war doctrine is meant to be a last resort.

A side question: If the Church says that a war is wrong, but a country makes it compulsory for its soldiers to participate, would it be wrong for them to do so?

Especially if the lines are not well defined - for example, both sides in the argument about the Iraq war have a good case.

Does papal infallibility extend to deciding whether a war is wrong or not?
 
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Cntrystr42:
I agree. My sisters boy-friend who is an elder who is a JW claimed that the war agianst Hitler, JW didn’t participate. That all the JW brothers and sisters “hid” and prayed to Jehovah while everyone else was still fighting. That’s where the 144,000 who are to be saved by God are the Jehovah Witnesses. Lame , huh. Have you noticed that all their kingdom halls have no noticeable windows? Just thought I’d ask.
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Yes it’s true they have no windows - or the windows are covered with heavy curtains - never open to the “outside world.” The kingdom hall’s resemble a dentist’s office. A very square type room, carpeted, with rows of seats. Up front is a sort of stage area. No alter, no crosses, no statues, just a podium for the speaker. On the wall up in the front is the saying or motto for the year. In the back of the hall they have a couple of rooms for smaller meetings… like when the elders find out you’ve done something wrong and they want to interigate you. Another room houses all the books and magazines they are supposed to “place.” Every Kingdom Hall must look the same - no variations.
 
I have seen in the news where the Pope has spoken against war but I don’t recall seeing in the news where one of the higher-ups in the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization have spoken out about war!

Ask the Jehovah Witness this: “Should the US eliminate the military altogether right now?” If he/she answers “no”, then why is it OK to have a military but not OK to be in it? Doesn’t make sense.
 
Something that is pointed out in the following article bears some attention re the issue raised here: The Commandment to “honor your father and your mother” includes, as St. Thomas Aquinas notes, the duty of patriotism to one’s country. I believe that for the JWs such an understanding is far from their belief system and personal consciousness, so fighting in defense of one’s land would automatically be objectionable however egregious the attack on it or how necessary the aid to another under siege.

touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=15-06-013-c
 
Not only do JW’s believe it is wrong to be in the military - they also believe it is wrong to carry a gun as a police officer. Yet I’m certain they wouldn’t hesistate to pick up the phone and dial 911 if they needed help.
 
I am bothered by the many quotes here in this column about Pope JPII coming out against the war. Of course the Church is going to favor on the side of dialogue over war. But JPII well understood the circumstances and the reason he made the statement was to protect all Christians in the region from having to suffer any harm or any more harm. It was a political statement meant to not rock the boat. Another result of learned lessons in the 2000 years of Church History of learned lessons.
 
carol marie:
Not only do JW’s believe it is wrong to be in the military - they also believe it is wrong to carry a gun as a police officer. Yet I’m certain they wouldn’t hesistate to pick up the phone and dial 911 if they needed help.
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I almost spit coffee through my nose on this. Good One! 👍

-B.
 
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