Talking with the pastor

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DAWNCUROLE

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HELP! I HAVE A PROBLEM AND I NEED HELP IN KNOWING HOW TO HANDLE IT. ON SUNDAY, MY DAUGHTER SERVED MASS. WHILE SETTING UP BEFORE MASS, THE PASTOR CAME INTO THE SACRASITY. HE BEGIN TO YELL AT HER BECAUSE SHE HAD ON WHITE DRESS SHOES INSTEAD OF BLACK DRESS SHOES. THE RULES (WHICH HE WROTE IN MAY) SAY ONLY TO WEAR DRESS SHOES. MY DAUGHTER WAS VERY UPSET AND DOES NOT WANT TO BE AN ALTAR SERVER ANYMORE. SHE LOVES SERVING MASS AND SHE ADORES THE PASTOR AND I HATE TO SEE HER BE THIS UPSET. I CALLED TO PERSON IN CHARGE OF THE ALTAR SERVERS TO SEE IF THERE WERE ANY OTHER PROBLEMS WITH MY DAUGHTER AS A SERVER. SHE HAS NOT RETURNED MY CALLS. I THEN I SPOKE WITH AN ADULT WHO I KNOW AND TRUST AND WAS IN THE SACRASITY AT THE TIME. HE CONFIRMED WHAT MY DAUGHTER SAID. HE ALSO STATED THAT THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME HE HAS YELLED AT AN ALTAR SERVER OR A DEACON OR EVEN AN ASSOCIATE PASTOR. PART OF ME WANTS TO MAKE HIM FEEL AS UPSET AS MY DAUGHTER IS. I KNOW THAT IS NOT VERY CHRISTIAN. PART OF FEELS I (AND MY HUSBAND) NEED TO MEET WITH HIM. I THOUGHT OF WRITING A LETTER. BUT I’M REALLY NOT SURE HOW TO HANDLE THIS. ANY ONE HAVE ANY IDEAS. I WANT TO HANDLE THIS IN A WAY IN WHICH PERHAPS WOULD HELP THE PASTOR DEAL WITH PEOPLE BETTER AND MY DAUGHTER FEEL BETTER ABOUT SERVING.
 
I would deffinately meet with the Pastor right away. Not to make him feel bad, just to explain how upset your daughter is and to ask for an apology to your daughter. Explain that she has expressed wanting to not serve anymore. Hopefully the pastor will want to help your daughter to continue to serve.

I have had a problem with my pastor before, totally different situation, but in the end the pastor thanked me for bringing my concerns to him promptly and kindly. And, most importantly, discreetly. I would suggest not talking about this with a lot of fellow parishoners before talking to the pastor.

HTH,
🙂 Lilder
 
You may find that if you and your husband first discuss the situation with the associate pastor, he might be able to help you better deal with the situation.

I am not sure where to go after this, I think the Holy Spirit will lead you based on this meeting.

just my :twocents:
 
Yelling at someone is abusive behavior. Abusive behavior is never acceptable, and particularly not from our priests and religious. I am in a similar position, except I’m the one who was yelled at, and I am appalled at the number of people who have heard of it and told me that I was wrong to stand up for myself, that a priest does have “the divine right of kings” to treat people however he wishes. I adamantly disagree with this idea; I believe that a priest has greater obligation than anybody else anywhere to treat people decently and appropriately to the situation at hand.

Yes, by all means, talk with him if you are able, but it’s not just a matter of your daughter being upset, it’s a matter of his having treated your daughter abusively and abuse being unacceptable.

You also need to write a letter detailing the incident and expressing your disappointment and/or outrage (whatever fits) to the personnel office of your diocese and to the Vicar General of your diocese, or whoever else is responsible for discipline of priests. Copy a letter to the bishop himself, and to the priest in question as a courtesy. State the case as clearly as you are able, note that this was publicly done, and be sure to sign your letter! It’s terrible the number of anonymous complaints that go to the Diocese; they are ignored, of course, because they can’t be verified or investigated.

Good luck to you and your family.
 
I totally agree with Laura.

I used to work for someone that shouted at me. Unfortunately I had no option but to stay in my job or go on welfare. Eventually I was able to leave the job but not before I gained 40 lbs. and was emotionally scarred from internalizing the abuse.

Stand up for not just your rights but for what is right.
You will be teaching your daughter a valuable lesson.
 
I agree, I think you and your husband should go and talk to the pastor, be kind. We all make mistakes, and you should give him the benefit of the doubt.

I would explain to your daughter that people don’t always act appropriately, even those we are close too. For example parents, etc. But if you don’t receive a satisfactory reply and perhaps apology, I think I would remove her as altar server. That’s not necessary and it was inappropriate.

God bless you!
 
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lilder:
I would deffinately meet with the Pastor right away. …

but in the end the pastor thanked me for bringing my concerns to him promptly and kindly. And, most importantly, discreetly. I would suggest not talking about this with a lot of fellow parishoners before talking to the pastor.
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I agree with starting the process kindly, charitably and discreetly.

I would also point out that many children first find themselves drawn to a religious vocation when being an altar server. Part of the attraction is being close to someone who is a living example of trying to imitate Christ.
 
You are obviously, and justifiably, upset still. You need to just try to relax and cool off before you say anything to the Pastor. If you go in there to talk to him while you are still too upset, you will not have any progress. As others have stated, you need to remain courteous.

I am so sorry that your daughter went through such a bad experience. I hope that you explain to her that serving is very important and that some people are just mean for unreasonable reasons. I hope things work out for you all!
 
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DAWNCUROLE:
HELP! I HAVE A PROBLEM AND I NEED HELP IN KNOWING HOW TO HANDLE IT. ON SUNDAY, MY DAUGHTER SERVED MASS. WHILE SETTING UP BEFORE MASS, THE PASTOR CAME INTO THE SACRASITY. HE BEGIN TO YELL AT HER BECAUSE SHE HAD ON WHITE DRESS SHOES INSTEAD OF BLACK DRESS SHOES. THE RULES (WHICH HE WROTE IN MAY) SAY ONLY TO WEAR DRESS SHOES. MY DAUGHTER WAS VERY UPSET AND DOES NOT WANT TO BE AN ALTAR SERVER ANYMORE. SHE LOVES SERVING MASS AND SHE ADORES THE PASTOR AND I HATE TO SEE HER BE THIS UPSET. I CALLED TO PERSON IN CHARGE OF THE ALTAR SERVERS TO SEE IF THERE WERE ANY OTHER PROBLEMS WITH MY DAUGHTER AS A SERVER. SHE HAS NOT RETURNED MY CALLS. I THEN I SPOKE WITH AN ADULT WHO I KNOW AND TRUST AND WAS IN THE SACRASITY AT THE TIME. HE CONFIRMED WHAT MY DAUGHTER SAID. HE ALSO STATED THAT THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME HE HAS YELLED AT AN ALTAR SERVER OR A DEACON OR EVEN AN ASSOCIATE PASTOR. PART OF ME WANTS TO MAKE HIM FEEL AS UPSET AS MY DAUGHTER IS. I KNOW THAT IS NOT VERY CHRISTIAN. PART OF FEELS I (AND MY HUSBAND) NEED TO MEET WITH HIM. I THOUGHT OF WRITING A LETTER. BUT I’M REALLY NOT SURE HOW TO HANDLE THIS. ANY ONE HAVE ANY IDEAS. I WANT TO HANDLE THIS IN A WAY IN WHICH PERHAPS WOULD HELP THE PASTOR DEAL WITH PEOPLE BETTER AND MY DAUGHTER FEEL BETTER ABOUT SERVING.
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This pastor was out of line and should have told her charitably and calmly, if his yelling is a pattern he seems to need psychologiacl help for anger management. No one likes being around a grump. Secondly, I really cannot understand why girls would be “altar servers” if ONLY males can be priests, and the latest document from Rome states that "the noble tradition of “Altar Boys” is encouraged, and has been a source of many priestly vocations.
 
I think the above advise is great. As far as the male altar server issue being brought up, maybe that should go on a serperate thread, I don’t think the original poster was asking for an opinion about girl altar servers… 🙂

Sincerely, WhiteDove
 
Dear friend in Christ,
I am at present involved with our Altar Serves here in Naas, Ireland. We have 45 servers 7 boys and the rest girls!:o
In the case of a complaint I would advise the following course of action with heartfely prayer at all stages:
  1. Approach those leaders in charge of the Altar Servers by letter or phone (God knows I have had many!!). Better if they have weekly / monthly meetings turn up at one and ask to speak to the leader(s) outside away from little ears!!! Ask them to carry your concern to the Pastor. Ask them to contact you with the response. If you get a response good. If not …
  2. Approach the Pastor. Explain clearly with due care and respect your concerns and indeed your justifiable anger and upset. Remember to keep it to facts that pertain to your situation and case. It is so easy to get sidetracked into "and I hear you also do this and that and have shouted at so and so"… If he listens good. If not …
  3. Wait some time and approach him again with the same concern reminding him that hurt has been caused and healing is needed. If he listens now good. If not remind him that if healing is not forthcoming and if the situation is not resolved at Parish level you, as a faithful Catholic, have a right to approach the local Ordinary (Bishop). After all the whole family has been hurt by this uncalled for action He should listen now! If not …
  4. A letter to the Bishop is very much in order again stating facts only that pertain to your concerns not adding anything else you may have heard or witnessed. One case only and written with due care and reverence.
  5. Once the Bishop has been alerted and providing you have received a response, leave it in His hands. Remind the Bishop that you are looking to Him as successor to the Apostoles for guidance and sound pastoral advice and action.
  6. Through the entire process from before you even begin it PRAY PRAY PRAY!
    It is important the the Pastor and the little Altar Server are brought together again in the family situation so that the little one has a chance to remove the hurt from her heart. maybe invite him to dinner? Now before you go mad think of Jesus and Zaccheus!!! Remember the quote***“Truly today Grace has come to this House”***
    Bless you and I do sincerely feel the hurt of the little one who has dedicated herself to service at the Altar. May God heal it all.
    Fergal
    Naas,
    Ireland
 
Fergal,

I really liked your response to Dawn. But in my diocese, I was instructed to begin with the Human Resources Director and the Vicar General, and to copy the letter(s) to the Bishop.

Maybe Dawn should call her diocesan chancery and ask what the procedure should be for her diocese?
 
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Maria-Pia:
… I used to work for someone that shouted at me. Unfortunately I had no option but to stay in my job or go on welfare …
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The two situtions are not exactly the same. While a boss should not be yelling at a worker, the employer is PAYING the employee to perform a certain task in a certain way by a certain time and he is expecting to get what he pays for.

If you went to a McDonald’s drive-thru and noticed when you got home that your order was wrong, you’d be upset because you didn’t get what you paid for. If this happened multiple times, you might be inclined to yell.

The same thing with an employer and an employee. If the employer is not getting what he thinks he is paying for, he might be inclined to yell and while it is not right, it is understandable.

What the employee needs to do is to explain at the beginning why a certain task can not be completed within a certian time period or done in a particular way and then the employer and the employee can come to some sort of understanding so that they are on the same page.

However, the Pastor is not PAYING your daughter to be an altar server. She is offering up her time & energy in service to her parish, the church and to God in the spirit of stewardship.

Just as a boss should never yell at a volunteer because the boss is not paying that person, the pastor should have never yelled at your daughter.

In addition to the excellent advise offered by Fergal, I would saying that while #2, you point this out to the pastor that he is getting something for nothing in the name of God. His actions of yelling at her, yelling at someone who was freeling giving their time & energy to God, has caused her not to want to do that any more. Instead of bringing her closer to the Lord, he has pushed her away. Is that something that a shepard of Christ should be doing? Pushing away volunteers who wish to help out the parish and the church in the name of God.

If he does not acknowledge his error at that point and/or takes offense at what is being said, move on to #3 and tell him that you would like to see if the local Bishop sees it the same way.
 
We had a similar problem, with a priest being so rude and gruff in his directions to our daughter while she was serving Mass. She also decided that she did not want to do it anymore.

Our approach was to just let her quit serving. Under the circumstances, we saw no reason to persuade her to risk further verbal abuse.

It has been many years now, and out daughter’s faith is strong! I wonder where she would be spiritually if we pressured her into continuing to work with a priest who gave bad example.

Sure, speak to the priest later, but that’s a separate matter from the welfare of your daughter!
 
Take some time to speak with the pastor in question…but please don’t let your daughter know about it. If he were to apologize, she might think he’s insincere due to your intervention or if she knows of your intervention she may at the very least feel that the apology, even if heartfelt, is not so.

(She may not tell you this, but please believe me…I have a LOT Of experience with teenagers although not as a parent.)

This definitely needs to be handled, so I hope you can work it out with the Priest directly rather than having to go over his head.
 
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LauraL:
You also need to write a letter detailing the incident and expressing your disappointment and/or outrage (whatever fits) to the personnel office of your diocese and to the Vicar General of your diocese, or whoever else is responsible for discipline of priests. Copy a letter to the bishop himself, and to the priest in question as a courtesy. State the case as clearly as you are able, note that this was publicly done, and be sure to sign your letter! It’s terrible the number of anonymous complaints that go to the Diocese; they are ignored, of course, because they can’t be verified or investigated.
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I think this is great as a last resort, but I would first go privately to the priest, then with another church member, priest, or deacon, then if the issue still is not resolved, go to the diocese. What happened is wrong, and the priest should be given the opportunity to resolve it privately first… we all have bad days, and as long as he realizes that and apologizes to your daughter and those who were in the room and admits he was wrong, I think that is what should happen.

Brandon
 
In my management training it was emphasized that you never yell at anyone under your authority; it damages your authority. The example given was when a police officer pulls you over. You won’t be very impressed if he yells at you, asks why do you do these things that irritate me so, gets red in the face and stamps his foot. It’s much more effective if he steps up in his neatly pressed uniform and polished leather, speaks quietly and, with authority, writes you a ticket.
 
Sir Knight:
The same thing with an employer and an employee. If the employer is not getting what he thinks he is paying for, he might be inclined to yell and while it is not right, it is understandable.
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I have to respectfully disagree…It is not Understandable to yell at someone in the work place, EVER. I know Sir Knight, you agree it is not right, I am not trying to start an argument. But from a Human Reasources position, yelling is never an appropriate, understandable, or correct action. No matter how many times an employee has “messed up.” As Joe Kelley points out, it undermines your authority. And it is Abuse, even if you are paying someone.

Not the reason I searched out this thread today though.
DAWNCUROLE ~~~ Your daughter has been on my heart today. How are things? Has this issue been addressed? Has there been any improvement?

🙂 Lilder
 
Brandon,

I agree that it is preferable to try to speak directly with the priest. However, from sad experience I know that the men who yell and holler and abuse people are also the ones who try to make themselves look noble for having done so. And many are simply unapproachable, impossible to talk to. That’s why I recommended contacting someone who CAN talk to the priest.
 
We finally have an appointment with the pastor today at 5pm. PLease pray for us.
 
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