Tax collectors?

[mikekle]

This has bothered me for awhile now, in biblical times, it seems everyone hated the tax collectors, people spit on them, cursed them, did other mean things to them all the time, no one had any respect for these people, but in our times, Ive never heard anyone speak in a negative way about people who collect taxes, in fact, many times, they are considered ‘professionals’!!! Hard to believe, but seems to be the case in our times.

Is this is just another ‘sign of the times’ and/or turning away from the bible, or…?

I also realize tax collectors back in biblical times were corrupt and greedy, but nothing has changed, Im sure all these people today are the same as back then, greed has definitely not changed in that regard, so this would not be an explanation.

 

[agnes_therese]

I also realize tax collectors back in biblical times were corrupt and greedy, but nothing has changed, Im sure all these people today are the same as back then, greed has definitely not changed in that regard, so this would not be an explanation.

On the contrary, the way taxes are collected has changed a LOT. You should do some research into the tax situation then, it’s very clearly not the same. To suggest that not spitting on and cursing IRS employees is somehow a “falling away from the Bible” is . . . um . . . well, polite words fail me. Whatever the failings of the IRS, no fellow human being should be treated like that.

 

[Neofight]

This has bothered me for awhile now, in biblical times, it seems everyone hated the tax collectors, people spit on them, cursed them, did other mean things to them all the time, no one had any respect for these people, but in our times, Ive never heard anyone speak in a negative way about people who collect taxes, in fact, many times, they are considered ‘professionals’!!! Hard to believe, but seems to be the case in our times.

Is this is just another ‘sign of the times’ and/or turning away from the bible, or…?

I also realize tax collectors back in biblical times were corrupt and greedy, but nothing has changed, Im sure all these people today are the same as back then, greed has definitely not changed in that regard, so this would not be an explanation.

Mike, you need to read the Catechism, 113-115, especially the literal sense of scripture…without doing so, we might as well be Protestants and believe in Sola Scriptura.

The “literal sense” does not mean take the scripture literally, it means to consider the historic context of the writings.

Tax collectors were hated because in Roman ruled Judea, they were opportunists, actually shakedown artists, who worked for the Romans. They were tasked by the Romans to raise a certain amount in their district for Rome. They were paid by being allowed to keep any excess they could squeeze out of the taxpayers.

The base taxes were bad enough, already more than the typical Jewish family could afford, but taking additional sums was pretty despicable.

They were lumped into the category of “sinner” (i.e., “sinners and tax collectors”) because taking additional money was clearly thievery.

They were hated, therefore, because it was bad enough that they worked for the occupying government, but then they essentially stole additional money from them.

If you read the gospel carefully, Jesus had no problem in the concept of paying taxes, but he did in anyone taking advantage of already impoverished people.

Peace and all good!

 

[ignatius777]

This has bothered me for awhile now, in biblical times, it seems everyone hated the tax collectors, people spit on them, cursed them, did other mean things to them all the time, no one had any respect for these people, but in our times, Ive never heard anyone speak in a negative way about people who collect taxes, in fact, many times, they are considered ‘professionals’!!! Hard to believe, but seems to be the case in our times.

Is this is just another ‘sign of the times’ and/or turning away from the bible, or…?

I also realize tax collectors back in biblical times were corrupt and greedy, but nothing has changed, Im sure all these people today are the same as back then, greed has definitely not changed in that regard, so this would not be an explanation.

I think its grossly unfair to call today’s tax collectors corrupt and greedy. That’s not to say its impossible for them to be corrupt and greedy but to focus on such a point misses the larger point. You don’t imagine the bible is speaking ONLY about tax collectors when it uses the term tax collectors do you? We all are capable of being corrupt and greedy and that is the larger point.

 

[HonoraNicola]

“Corrupt and greedy” is too kind a term for many Roman tax collectors. In some parts of Asia Minor, tax collectors forced people to sell their children into prostitution to pay up. (The alternatives were prison, torture, and/or death.) Source: Adrienne Mayor, “The Poison King: The Life and Legend of Mithradates, Rome’s Deadliest Enemy.”

 

[ignatius777]

“Corrupt and greedy” is too kind a term for many Roman tax collectors. In some parts of Asia Minor, tax collectors forced people to sell their children into prostitution to pay up. (The alternatives were prison, torture, and/or death.) Source: Adrienne Mayor, “The Poison King: The Life and Legend of Mithradates, Rome’s Deadliest Enemy.”

No doubt but tax collectors represent the spirit of corruption and greed that lies within us. The bible is never just as simple as reading the words. God intends us to learn something about ourselves from the example of the tax collectors. Tax collectors don’t show up in the bible just to show us how corrupt and greedy they could be.

 

[pianistclare]

Mike, you need to read the Catechism, 113-115, especially the literal sense of scripture…without doing so, we might as well be Protestants and believe in Sola Scriptura.

The “literal sense” does not mean take the scripture literally, it means to consider the historic context of the writings.

Tax collectors were hated because in Roman ruled Judea, they were opportunists, actually shakedown artists, who worked for the Romans. They were tasked by the Romans to raise a certain amount in their district for Rome. They were paid by being allowed to keep any excess they could squeeze out of the taxpayers.

The base taxes were bad enough, already more than the typical Jewish family could afford, but taking additional sums was pretty despicable.

They were lumped into the category of “sinner” (i.e., “sinners and tax collectors”) because taking additional money was clearly thievery.

They were hated, therefore, because it was bad enough that they worked for the occupying government, but then they essentially stole additional money from them.

If you read the gospel carefully, Jesus had no problem in the concept of paying taxes, but he did in anyone taking advantage of already impoverished people.

Peace and all good!

Very good post. In Jesus day, they were committing crimes against the people, not abiding by law. Totally different scenario.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

This has bothered me for awhile now, in biblical times, it seems everyone hated the tax collectors, people spit on them, cursed them, did other mean things to them all the time, no one had any respect for these people, but in our times, Ive never heard anyone speak in a negative way about people who collect taxes, in fact, many times, they are considered ‘professionals’!!! Hard to believe, but seems to be the case in our times.

Is this is just another ‘sign of the times’ and/or turning away from the bible, or…?

I also realize tax collectors back in biblical times were corrupt and greedy, but nothing has changed, Im sure all these people today are the same as back then, greed has definitely not changed in that regard, so this would not be an explanation.

I have a hard time believing you’re being serious, but if you are, then you’re basically just wrong that nothing has changed. Humans are and always have been corrupt, but the practices that people in various positions do have changed a lot, and it’s a matter of history that tax gatherers in that time period would extort additional money for their own personal use, whereas any IRS agent who tried that would end up in prison.

Your argument that tax gatherers are just as corrupt because greed hasn’t changed is along the same lines as saying that the President of the U.S. necessarily forces political opponents into gladiatorial combat and/or slavery because that happened in the past and human lust for power hasn’t changed.

 

[GEddie]

There is also the issue that for most human beings, when we pay taxes we support our own country.

The Romans were a conquering foreign empire. The Roman taxman therefore, was an oppressor. And his Jewish assistant was seen as a collaborating traitor.

Consider how Tories were treated in the American Revolution, or collaborators in Nazi occupied France.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[ignatius777]

There is also the issue that for most human beings, when we pay taxes we support our own country.

The Romans were a conquering foreign empire. The Roman taxman therefore, was an oppressor. And his Jewish assistant was seen as a collaborating traitor.

Consider how Tories were treated in the American Revolution, or collaborators in Nazi occupied France.

ICXC NIKA.

Right we accept the need for taxes and in turn can expect to be taxed fairly. That wasn’t the case with the tax collectors of Jesus time.

 

[midori]

Tax collectors were Jews working for their Roman conquerors. Pretend that ISIS took over your town. Your neighbor isn’t part of ISIS, but signs up for a job that helps them oppress you and your neighbors. How would you feel about his collaboration?

Suppose further that his job is to collect $100,000 from your town and hand it over to ISIS, or else Bad Stuff Happens to your town. He collects $150,000, pockets $50,000 for himself, and hands over the $100,000 to ISIS. How would you feel about that?

That’s how they felt about tax collectors: they were active collaborators with the enemy, and oppressed their neighbors for the sake of personal profit.

 

[Just_Lurking]

When the anti-Christ takes over the U.S., one of the first things he will do is to claim that the IRS is too inefficient, and outsource the job of collecting taxes to a private, for-profit company. This will get us back to the situation of ancient Roman times.

 

[mikekle]

If you read the gospel carefully, Jesus had no problem in the concept of paying taxes, but he did in anyone taking advantage of already impoverished people.

Peace and all good!

Yeah, that is something Im not so sure about, I know many people believe this, but for some reason, I think we have misunderstood the interpretation about this, I dont know why, just my personal feeling… kind of curious that so many bible interpretations benefit modern Govt/authority in direct and indirect ways, that is suspicious to me.

 

[ignatius777]

Yeah, that is something Im not so sure about, I know many people believe this, but for some reason, I think we have misunderstood the interpretation about this, I dont know why, just my personal feeling… kind of curious that so many bible interpretations benefit modern Govt/authority in direct and indirect ways, that is suspicious to me.

With all due respect something more than your personal feeling is needed to support your assertion. Jesus says, give to Caesar what is Caesars. If he had any reservations why would he say what he said?

 

[pianistclare]

Yeah, that is something Im not so sure about, I know many people believe this, but for some reason, I think we have misunderstood the interpretation about this, I dont know why, just my personal feeling… kind of curious that so many bible interpretations benefit modern Govt/authority in direct and indirect ways, that is suspicious to me.

Scripture is suspicious? Or other people’s interpretations are suspicious?

 

[GerLocke]

To think of tax collectors as greedy, in the context of modern America makes no sense.
Today’s tax collectors work directly for government agencies, and do not have the opportunity to skim off the top or get a commission based on what they collect. They get paid a straight salary, and would not have a motive to be greedy with respect to the tax payers.

As far as “falling away” from the Bible, what?? The Bible does not teach is to hate tax collectors, it simply states the historical fact that actually occurred. The Bible mentions that prostitutes existed, but if we are not prostitutes, you would not say that we are falling away from the Bible, would you?

God Bless!

 

[GratefulFred]

GerLocke: Lois Lerner. Pointedly mistreating political adversaries.

There are exceptions to the rule. We really do not have tax collectors who are allowed to enrich themselves anyway they can as long as the higher government gets theirs.

In general, the American system of collecting taxes is governed by Law and Regulations with sufficient avenues for appeal. The appeal process can be slow and expensive and that is an abuse of innocent taxpayers. But in general, the tax collection system is fair for most taxpayers.

We’ve been talking about abusive tax collectors. What about tax cheaters? Which community has the greater population?

 

[GerLocke]

Agree, but I should make it clear that I was not assuming that everyone working for the IRS is perfectly honest. Just as people love to point out the failings of some of our own bishops, etc. That, of course, is always going to be the case as we are all flawed humans. If someone at the IRS takes illegal actions, they must be dealt with. I just assumed that as already established, given the audience of this forum.

God Bless.

 

[Nelka]

Tax collectors took more so they could have a bit for themselves.

They also worked for the Romans, do you remember the Jews during he war that helped the Nazis in the Ghetto’s? (Jewish Ghetto Police).

They felt betrayed by them.

 

[John_Lazarus]

I also realize tax collectors back in biblical times were corrupt and greedy, but nothing has changed**, Im sure all these people today are the same as back then,** greed has definitely not changed in that regard, so this would not be an explanation.

My father worked for Revenue Canada as a tax agent.

He is an honest, moral, and upright man. I can only hope to be half the man he is.

Maybe you should cut back a bit on the conspiracy theories.