Teaching Children to Defend Themselves

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A 17 year old teenager has been released to his parents’ custody after accidently killing a 53 year old man who - in a road rage - followed him home and tried to run over him with his car. The man was strapped into his seat. The boy punched him twice in the head. The man died of his head injuries.

The young man, a football player, is 6 foot 6 and weighs 300 pounds.

He inadvertently cut the other man off. He was in front of his own home when the killing occured. He was the one who called the ambulance for the man he killed.

We can all second guess his actions. My (uniformed) guess is that this young man has been taught to defend himself when threatened - and this 53 year old definitely was threatening.

How should we teach our children to defend themselves? How do we teach our girls to say no and mean it, our boys to stay safe? Where does this fit in with our Catholic Christian Faith and teaching.

I don’t pretend to have a definite answer - I am saddenned by this story and wondered what you all think?
 
Without knowing all of the details… I would say that as far as teaching our young men to defend themselves the first lesson should be that violence is necessary only when there is no other option whatsoever. Could this young man have gone into his home and called the police? That would’ve been a much better solution. Also - at 17 & 300 pounds - I’m wondering if he was a scared child/victim or more likely an angry man who wanted to teach this guy a lesson? Not saying the guy in the car wasn’t in the wrong - obviously he was nuts for trying to run someone over. But if the 17 year old could’ve gotten away - he should have.
 
I’d guess even someone at their physical peak might have trouble running away from a car… And from the sounds of how the 53 year old acted, he probably would have taken it even farther…
It’s a sad story, but I think he somewhat did the right thing… Someone snapped and tried to run him down with a car… If given the chance the stop the man or at least disorient him, I think I might do that same… He apparently did not try to kill him if he sought medical attention for the man.

If violence is necessary, use it and hopefully in a non fatal way to the best of your ability, but afterwards, tend to the injured…
 
I agree with Carol Marie. There is a big difference between facing down a school bully in the school yard and punching a man until he dies of his injuries.

My grandfather in particular always told me to stand up for myself, but not to do more harm than necessary if someone wanted to fight with me. He “armed” me by teaching me some basic boxing techniques that served this diminutive gal well when confronted by bullies, and I don’t mean guys, either.

It’s fine to teach children self defense, but along with it, they should be taught restraint–that throwing the first punch is wrong, for instance, and that not wanting or trying to find a non-violent way out of such situations is even more wrong.
 
My 10 year old daughter has been taking Karate for 3+ years. They also learn a program called Bully Busters which is a nonviolent way of dealing with bullies. In the schools, they don’t care who threw the first punch, if there is a fight, all involved get in trouble. So they learn how to disarm a bully, how to deflect a bully’s physical advance without being physical themselves. Not only do they learn the techniques, but they learn a whole lot of self confidence and poise to stand up for themselves.

Then there are badguy techniques. The guys who are truly out to harm you, not just a peer being a bully. Our sifu has said that the little girl who was taken in Florida could have resisted if she only knew how. Witnesses have reported how she was grabbed, and it would have been reletively easy to get out of with some know how. So they practice how to get away from different ways that you may be grabbed. But she teaches them most of all how to be aware of your surroundings, how to act so that you don’t seem an easy target, to trust your gut if something doesn’t seem right.

They learn that their techniques are only to be used for self defense, not to be the aggressor.

I’m hoping that as my daughter grows up, she will be able to stand up for herself, to make it clear that no means no, trust herself to know if a certain situation doesn’t feel safe, and to protect herself if it comes down to it.

I also love that the art form my daughter studies is a Christian art, and there is a prayer they say before every workout.
 
Hmm… I’m gonna have to put out a differnet point of view.

The “I don’t care who threw the first punch” mentality is horrible, its what gives the bullies their power. They knew they can beat up on smaller people all they want, knowing that if they’re both going to get in trouble, he can’t be blamed for it.

I experienced that time and time over again as a kid… it doesn’t work.

With regard to the fooball, player, he did what he had to do. If the guy is trying to run you over, you have to defend yourself. You say he could have tried to run into the house and call the police. Doesn’t work. IF the man doesn’t pull out a gun and try to shoot you while your’e running to the door, he’ll get out of the car and follow you in and shoot you while you’re on the phone. I"m not exagerating, we’ve had a few cases of Road Rage here in Oregon that ended like that.

All the guy could do is restrain the man in whatever way he could, by knocking him out unconscious, and then calling the authorities. Its unfortunate that the man died in the process, but that’s the penalty you pay for trying to kill someone.

Josh
 
In such a situation there are so many variables, and we have no idea what was going through the guy’s mind, so it’s really impossible for us to judge, of course. There are moments when we should defend ourselves, and there are moments when should just walk away, even if it makes people think we’re chicken and woosies.

It’s like what they teach you if you’ve ever taken a karate class. I believe most children first begin taking karate because they think the fighting part looks really cool, but they learn that there’s much more to it. You must use your mind with your body, and you don’t use your physical abilities to start fights and provoke people, and you only use it to defend yourself if there’s no other choice.

By the way, if someone gets shot running away from danger instead of trying to fight it, I don’t think God would be displeased.
 
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LSK:
A 17 year old teenager has been released to his parents’ custody after accidently killing a 53 year old man who - in a road rage - followed him home and tried to run over him with his car. The man was strapped into his seat. The boy punched him twice in the head. The man died of his head injuries.

The young man, a football player, is 6 foot 6 and weighs 300 pounds.

He inadvertently cut the other man off. He was in front of his own home when the killing occured. He was the one who called the ambulance for the man he killed.

We can all second guess his actions. My (uniformed) guess is that this young man has been taught to defend himself when threatened - and this 53 year old definitely was threatening.

How should we teach our children to defend themselves? How do we teach our girls to say no and mean it, our boys to stay safe? Where does this fit in with our Catholic Christian Faith and teaching.

I don’t pretend to have a definite answer - I am saddenned by this story and wondered what you all think?
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This local news for me. I’m from NJ. I do not agree with what the kid did, he killed a man and should be punished. BUT road rage in NJ is out of control. Middle fingers are the norm in this state:eek: . I traveled to other states and had to “adjust” my own tough driving. (no- I never gave “the finger”) but I was on the recieving end over 100 times since I started driving in 1973! This probaly why we have one of the highest car insurance in the country.
 
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threej_lc:
Hmm… I’m gonna have to put out a differnet point of view.

The “I don’t care who threw the first punch” mentality is horrible, its what gives the bullies their power. They knew they can beat up on smaller people all they want, knowing that if they’re both going to get in trouble, he can’t be blamed for it.

I experienced that time and time over again as a kid… it doesn’t work.

With regard to the fooball, player, he did what he had to do. If the guy is trying to run you over, you have to defend yourself. You say he could have tried to run into the house and call the police. Doesn’t work. IF the man doesn’t pull out a gun and try to shoot you while your’e running to the door, he’ll get out of the car and follow you in and shoot you while you’re on the phone. I"m not exagerating, we’ve had a few cases of Road Rage here in Oregon that ended like that.

All the guy could do is restrain the man in whatever way he could, by knocking him out unconscious, and then calling the authorities. Its unfortunate that the man died in the process, but that’s the penalty you pay for trying to kill someone.

Josh
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Local story where I am from… I know the kid it happened to:
17 year old in car cuts off some guy with a pickup. Guy chases kid… chases kid almost all the way home. Kid turns off on a side street, turns off his car, trying to loose the guy. Guy come full throttle down the street and rams the driver side door of the car. Guy in truck then proceeds to get out of the truck and beat the kid. Kid lived… guy is in jail now. I would say they both got lucky.

I am all about avoiding a dangerous situation in the first place. Teach your kids and spouses to be aware of their surroundings at all times. Teach them to pay attention to that inner voice that tells them when something isn’t right. Teach them to think… the kid my story above should have driven some place a bit more public… local mall… etc.

Even after all that… there are still situations where all that left is to physically defend yourself and your family.
 
ok…here I go again…At 17 he probably knows his size/power, while I truly believe he did not mean to kill the man and he also was aware that he had the power to kill. Maybe adrenaline got the best of him at that moment, God knows it would me. I think we should all be considering the soul of this young man. No matter what the courts do to him, he has to live with this for the rest of his life. That is some hard lesson for a 17 yo! I believe prayers are in order here…I will remeber him in my prayers, will you?
 
From what I gather from the posts, we all agree that this young man (17) is now left with the aftermath of this entire incident and the emotional scars it will leave. My heart breaks for the families and the boy - the decedent is also in need of our prayers.

As a child, I grew up with a father who regularly chased down people who had ‘done him wrong’ while driving. At the time we did not use the term ‘road rage’. I would be terrified. My father would be driving at breakneck speeds, weaving in and out of traffic, and inevitably - when he caught the perpetrator - part of his screaming tirade at the person would include, “I have kids in the car! You could have killed them!”.

Fast forward many years. While he mellowed as time went on, he never completely lost this sense of entitlement when it came to dishing out punishment to errant drivers. At the age of 75 he was knifed by a young man after following the man and his family because they had cut him off on the freeway. My father lived through that, but died before the sentencing hearing. I gave the victim’s statement.

I pointed out to the young man that his statement that he had acted to protect his family (he had 3 young children in the car at the time) was ****. He had not acted to protect his family - if he had been truly afraid for his family’s safety he would have used his cell phone, called the Highway Patrol and demanded help. Instead, he got out of his car, pulled an elderly man from his truck and knifed him. I told him that I had grown up with a father that had done similar things to his children and that if he really REALLY wanted to make amends for his actions he would do whatever was necessary to end this cycle of macho, territorial, violent behavior RIGHT THIS MINUTE. I also told him, quite frankly, that I thought my father’s behavior that night was wrong, but that I eternally grateful that my Dad had not been travelling with his gun or he would have killed the young man in front of his 4, 6 and 8 year old children.

The judge listenned to what I said and the man was sentenced to heavy duty probation that includes therapy and anger management sessions. I received a letter through his lawyer a month ago in which he stated that he was so sorry for what had happenned but that because of the tongue lashing I had delivered in the courtroom that day - pulling his covers - he and his family had rededicated themselves to their Catholic Faith and had turned their lives around.

My father died without ever truly turning his life around. We need to remember how our actions impact more than ourselves - they impact our community as well as our immortal souls.
 
You said the guy was still strapped into his seatbelt?

That’s strange. Then the kid would have to had hit him through the window, no?

If so, the kid was not just defending himself.

He was a willing participant in the violence.
 
Wow, LSK, that is some thought-provoking story about your father and road rage. Kaymart–I grew up and learned to drive in NJ. I still get irritated by aggressive drivers but I have learned to pull over as fast as I can and get out of their way. Even when they are wrong, they are downright dangerous so I let them move on. Then I usually slow down even more as I watch them do to cars ahead of me–tailgating at high speeds or weaving in an out of congested traffic. I fear that the bad drivers will cause an accident up ahead that I will have to stop quickly in reaction.
 
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iamrefreshed:
You said the guy was still strapped into his seatbelt?

That’s strange. Then the kid would have to had hit him through the window, no?

If so, the kid was not just defending himself.

He was a willing participant in the violence.
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According to the newsstory I read online at Yahoo.com, the window was rolled down and the kid punched him while he was still sitting in his car.

I agree. I think he was a willing participant in the violence and his poor judgement (he may be a big 17 year old but he is still a 17 year old) leads to a death. He may be paying big time for this legally and he will pay emotionally for the rest of his life.

I hate bullies and I know it is important to teach our children to stand up to bullies. What is difficult is how to do it, what road to take in terms of physically defending themselves against violence. I also think we need to be aware that there are a lot of kids who look very normal out there who have been born with damage resulting for drug and alcohol use by BOTH parents (research is starting to look at the damage done to male chromosones because of alcohol and drug use that could affect the development of a child in utero). There is lack of impulse control and an increase in the ‘o to 60’ level of getting angry over real or perceived slights.
 
La Chiara:
Wow, LSK, that is some thought-provoking story about your father and road rage. Kaymart–I grew up and learned to drive in NJ. I still get irritated by aggressive drivers but I have learned to pull over as fast as I can and get out of their way. Even when they are wrong, they are downright dangerous so I let them move on. Then I usually slow down even more as I watch them do to cars ahead of me–tailgating at high speeds or weaving in an out of congested traffic. I fear that the bad drivers will cause an accident up ahead that I will have to stop quickly in reaction.
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Thanks - the whole sordid episode made me really look at that part of my childhood. It also made me really look at how I behave on the road and in front of children for whom I am responsible. I wish this growing up thing was easier - maybe if I had done it when I was SUPPOSED to have done it?:rotfl:
 
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LSK:
According to the newsstory I read online at Yahoo.com, the window was rolled down and the kid punched him while he was still sitting in his car.

I agree. I think he was a willing participant in the violence and his poor judgement (he may be a big 17 year old but he is still a 17 year old) leads to a death. He may be paying big time for this legally and he will pay emotionally for the rest of his life.
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As far as anyone knows, the guy could have been trying to get out of his car or reaching for a weapon. As tragic as it is, I don’t think the 17 year old is at fault. He felt threatened, was hit by the car, and defended himself properly. He only punched the guy twice, some of you are acting like he dragged the guy out and started whaling on him.

courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050914/NEWS01/509140338/1006
 
There is a big difference between facing down a school bully in the school yard and punching a man until he dies of his injuries.
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I do not think that hitting someone twice amounts to “punching a man until he dies of his injuries” but the fact that he went over to the man’s car pretty much legally rules out any plea of “self defense”. Unless the man had somehow trapped him with his door or pinned him against the side of the car he became the aggressor the moment he approached the man’s car.

I am a BIG proponent of self-defense whether by fist or by gun but only when ABOSLUTELY necessary. If you can difuse the situation by letting the aggressive driver follow you to a Police station or by another means of escape than you must do so, although you NEVER want to lead them to your home.
 
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2shelbys:
I do not think that hitting someone twice amounts to “punching a man until he dies of his injuries” but the fact that he went over to the man’s car pretty much legally rules out any plea of “self defense”. Unless the man had somehow trapped him with his door or pinned him against the side of the car he became the aggressor the moment he approached the man’s car.

I am a BIG proponent of self-defense whether by fist or by gun but only when ABOSLUTELY necessary. If you can difuse the situation by letting the aggressive driver follow you to a Police station or by another means of escape than you must do so, although you NEVER want to lead them to your home.
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I don’t know about that: the fact that the driver hit him w/ his car, the 17 yr old then had the right to defend himself. If he took off running, who’s to say the driver wouldn’t hit him again with the vehicle? What you’re saying is kinda like: “He shot me and didn’t kill me, so I guess I better run away instead of shooting back.”
 
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Della:
I agree with Carol Marie. There is a big difference between facing down a school bully in the school yard and punching a man until he dies of his injuries.

My grandfather in particular always told me to stand up for myself, but not to do more harm than necessary if someone wanted to fight with me. He “armed” me by teaching me some basic boxing techniques that served this diminutive gal well when confronted by bullies, and I don’t mean guys, either.

It’s fine to teach children self defense, but along with it, they should be taught restraint–that throwing the first punch is wrong, for instance, and that not wanting or trying to find a non-violent way out of such situations is even more wrong.
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The kid only punched the guy twice though. i am sure the kid didn’t think he was going to kill the guy. If he would have kept hitting the guy, it would have been definately overboard, but it is tough to say considering he only hit the guy twice. The guy also followed him to his house and tried to run him over with his car. I don’t think hitting the guy twice is not going over board in a situation like this especially if you think once is not enough to disorient the guy.
 
Reading the actual story, I think this is a clear case of self defense and this young man should not be held legally responsible for this man’s death. The man hit him with his car - he didn’t just try to, but actually hit him. His only method of defending himself at that point would be to essentially knock the man unconscious. If he were to keep running toward his hoem, the man likely would have run him over again, maybe killing him. This poor boy has to deal with having killed a man. To hold him legally responsible would be very wrong.
 
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