ted haggard sex thing was

[bella5110]

Wow, how charitable of you.

Very Christlike.

This has nothing to do with charity Steadfast. Were you with charity in your posts with CestusDei?? I think not.
It is what it is.

 

[bella5110]

he is also a child of God who is fallen.

Oh but you said you wish the RCC would of handled it better…therefore Haggart in my opinion is a wolf in sheep’s clothing ,is called a child of God?

 

[dapper]

This has nothing to do with charity Steadfast. Were you with charity in your posts with CestusDei?? I think not.
It is what it is.

All Cestusdei and Steadfast-ery aside , THIS HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH CHARITY!! Things like sexual abuse in any fashion taking place in any church with any shepherd calls us all to be tempered by the fire of charity (maybe a little too poetic here).

Really, what would Jesus do here? Would he say “Ah ha! Now I have ammunition against the Protestants who say priests are the only sexual abusers! Muahahahah!..” I think not…

We all know that we are all human. We all sin. But in terms of religeous governance, (which is the OP’s main point) check your emotional baggage at the door here people. This was handled well…better than the Caltholic Church handled its problem. Let’s learn, and forgive. That’s charitble, is it not?

 

[Verita]

I feel deeply sorry for the man. I think it is obvious that he DOES believe homosexuality is wrong. I cannot imagine what it must be like to feel such a strong desire for something you know to be wrong. How torturous that must be. And in the end he could not rise above that horrible temptation. It is a tragedy.

And I pray especially for his wife. I cannot even think about what she must be feeling… the pain of it. Poor woman.

 

[bella5110]

I feel deeply sorry for the man. I think it is obvious that he DOES believe homosexuality is wrong. I cannot imagine what it must be like to feel such a strong desire for something you know to be wrong. How torturous that must be. And in the end he could not rise above that horrible temptation. It is a tragedy.

And I pray especially for his wife. I cannot even think about what she must be feeling… the pain of it. Poor woman.

oh please…you mean he finally got it?

 

[bella5110]

All Cestusdei and Steadfast-ery aside , THIS HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH CHARITY!! Things like sexual abuse in any fashion taking place in any church with any shepherd calls us all to be tempered by the fire of charity (maybe a little too poetic here).

Really, what would Jesus do here? Would he say “Ah ha! Now I have ammunition against the Protestants who say priests are the only sexual abusers! Muahahahah!..” I think not…

We all know that we are all human. We all sin. But in terms of religeous governance, (which is the OP’s main point) check your emotional baggage at the door here people. This was handled well…better than the Caltholic Church handled its problem. Let’s learn, and forgive. That’s charitble, is it not?

you misunderstood, the uncharitable thing he was referring to was that I said Haggart was a drug addict and a homosexual. It is what it is. Funny how all you fundamentalists on these threads constantly refer to the priests as pedophiles, so that’s ok?

 

[BrickCityIrish]

In a better world, Ted Haggard would acknowledge his bisexuality, never married his wife, and lived an honest life.

In a better world, Christianity and the resulting money would not have been such a rich career path. Sad how money changes everything.

In a better world, Mr Haggard would not have to take meth to give himself permission to have to sex with another man.

I’m openly gay. I live with my partner. And we both get hit on when we go on line by married men looking for for a hook up. Married guys are on Craig’s List, on all the gay chat channels, on MySpace, everywhere on the internet. Also married guys are in the gay bars. They are looking for sex in the gym locker rooms. They are soliciting us in the bathrooms.

My partner and I are middle aged men. We don’t ask for this. We carry all the joys and burdens of being openly gay. One of the burdens is dealing with married men who want to have sex with us. Or actually just to hold another man.

Of course I feel sorry for them. I’m sorrier more for their wives and children. Especially when colleagues figure that unburdening themselves to me would help them. I always say “get (secular) counseling” and “tell your wife.” Counselers familiar with current scientific research can give the married men a basis to make some decisions. And telling their wives is simply what they owe them.

A man can chop down one tree in his backyard and no one calls him a lumberjack…

It is possible that a man can be curious, and experiment but be heterosexual with a tinge of bi-sexual curiosity. Not every man who has every been curious is a card carrying homosexual. It’s still adultery of course, and Ted Haggard could be a closet case due to the length and frequency of his trysts, that’s may be the case, but I don’t know if that’s all encompassing.

I would wager most people of each sex have been curious at one point in their life or another, even if it’s fleeting and whent hey’re young, in secular society women with other women is all but accepted and considered enticing. Not to mention it isn’t fair to indict all married men as closeted homosexuals, I don’ think that’s the case, I have no doubt it happens, probably frequently, but let’s not label all men adulterous closet cases.

To the original point, it was handled well? I mean seriously this guy heads 30 million evangelicals and was outed to ABC News, what were they going to do? How could they sweep it under the rug? Now if Mike Jones approached Pastor Ted secretly for a bribe would it have been handled in the same way? Probably not, but we’ll never know. Fact is the guy confessed when he had no options, the Church has no choice really but to send him packing. I don’t know what all the back patting is for. It would be akin to ABC news reporting that Cardinal Egan maybe even higher was caught using Meth and having a gay tryst, and broadcast all over the news for a week straight.

 

[Verita]

oh please…you mean he finally got it?

I’m not really sure what you mean by that. I’m beginning to agree with Steadfast that some people are being unneccesarily harsh.

 

[dapper]

Funny how all you fundamentalists on these threads constantly refer to the priests as pedophiles, so that’s ok?

No, It’s not funny. If a priest molests a child then they’re a pedophile. If a man cheats on his wife with a man, does meth, and lies about it then he’s probably a homosexual or bisexual and a drug addict too. Especially with meth. Anyone can point that out, not just a fundamentalist. As you put it “it is what it is.”

Also, I never claimed or said that all priests are pedophiles and you know that “us fundamentalists” don’t think that. No one here is saying that. This thread is about the correlation between the governance of the RCC and Haggards church. Your emotion about this is blinding your objectivity.

Either way, both priests who molest children and pastors who cheat on their wife and do drugs need the charity of their Christian brothers and sisters, do they not? The first step is not enabling their behavior by keeping them in a job that puts them in situations that will promote their behavior (ie; rotating a priest to another parish when complaints that he has been possibly molesting children are being made).

Bella, why exactly are coming across so bitter and angry?

 

[dapper]

A man can chop down one tree in his backyard and no one calls him a lumberjack…

It is possible that a man can be curious, and experiment but be heterosexual with a tinge of bi-sexual curiosity. Not every man who has every been curious is a card carrying homosexual. It’s still adultery of course, and Ted Haggard could be a closet case due to the length and frequency of his trysts, that’s may be the case, but I don’t know if that’s all encompassing.

I would wager most people of each sex have been curious at one point in their life or another, even if it’s fleeting and whent hey’re young, in secular society women with other women is all but accepted and considered enticing. Not to mention it isn’t fair to indict all married men as closeted homosexuals, I don’ think that’s the case, I have no doubt it happens, probably frequently, but let’s not label all men adulterous closet cases.

To the original point, it was handled well? I mean seriously this guy heads 30 million evangelicals and was outed to ABC News, what were they going to do? How could they sweep it under the rug? Now if Mike Jones approached Pastor Ted secretly for a bribe would it have been handled in the same way? Probably not, but we’ll never know. Fact is the guy confessed when he had no options, the Church has no choice really but to send him packing. I don’t know what all the back patting is for. It would be akin to ABC news reporting that Cardinal Egan maybe even higher was caught using Meth and having a gay tryst, and broadcast all over the news for a week straight.

Good point, but for the amount of time that the molestations were going on in the RCC, you would think that the bishops that knew that this was going on and were activley moving the priests to different parishes and trying to cover up the problem, would have said something or tried to get these priests **out **of the priesthood all together instead of keeping them near children.

Regarding married men, no one here is saying that all married men are closet cases but I have come across some that are and far too frequently. It’s very sad as many in my experiences have children too.

 

[santaro75]

In a better world, Ted Haggard would acknowledge his bisexuality, never married his wife, and lived an honest life.

In a better world, Christianity and the resulting money would not have been such a rich career path. Sad how money changes everything.

In a better world, Mr Haggard would not have to take meth to give himself permission to have to sex with another man.

I’m openly gay. I live with my partner. And we both get hit on when we go on line by married men looking for for a hook up. Married guys are on Craig’s List, on all the gay chat channels, on MySpace, everywhere on the internet. Also married guys are in the gay bars. They are looking for sex in the gym locker rooms. They are soliciting us in the bathrooms.

My partner and I are middle aged men. We don’t ask for this. We carry all the joys and burdens of being openly gay. One of the burdens is dealing with married men who want to have sex with us. Or actually just to hold another man.

Of course I feel sorry for them. I’m sorrier more for their wives and children. Especially when colleagues figure that unburdening themselves to me would help them. I always say “get (secular) counseling” and “tell your wife.” Counselers familiar with current scientific research can give the married men a basis to make some decisions. And telling their wives is simply what they owe them.

just curious if you have encountered any priests in any of these gay channels?

 

[Eden]

just curious if you have encountered any priests in any of these gay channels?

Or Evangelicals. You forgot to ask about Evangelical ministers because you were so quick to attack priests again.

 

[MikeinSD]

just curious if you have encountered any priests in any of these gay channels?

I don’t know. Lots of gay chat websites are similar to this. If some subscribers are chatting away about, say the recent elections, and some guy posts that he wants sex. The men posting don’t describe their jobs.

I don’t think a Catholic priest or a Protestant minister, or a Jewish rabbi would be willing to disclose their occupations on-line.

 

[AlegreFe]

I never said that they weren’t. I was appealing to the poster to have a little charity.

If I wanted to show charity, I would’ve also added that our Priests are also children of God. You could’ve said that in defense of our Priests. No matter what some of these priests did, they are still children of God.

Part of the problem here in the Catholic Church is that we don’t have enough Catholics to stand up for our Priests. I am NOT condoning their actions here. Believe me, I’m not. I am a sex abuse survivor, but NOT by a priest. But still, our Priests need our prayers. I pray for priests when I pray my rosary. I pray for an increase in vocations too. We need more good priests in this sad world. We need Jesus Christ substantially present here with us and the only way that that can happen is through our priests. We need the bread of life in order to gain eternal salvation. I know that you know that but I just wish that more Catholics would stand up for our faith and most especially for our priests.

santaro75:

what the heck is your problem?

If you felt attacked by me in my previous post, I’m sorry. But you did not have to make this comment to me either. I would never come right out and ask someone this question like this. None of us are perfect. I explained my feelings about how people do not stick up for our priests and that’s how I feel. But it’s not a “problem” as how you put it so uncharitably. Are your Catholic brothers & sisters exempt from your charity? Are our Catholic Priests exempt from your charity?

Again, I apologize for any tone that I might have had to make you say that. I am truly sorry.

Peace and God bless.

 

[AlegreFe]

I feel deeply sorry for the man. I think it is obvious that he DOES believe homosexuality is wrong. I cannot imagine what it must be like to feel such a strong desire for something you know to be wrong. How torturous that must be. And in the end he could not rise above that horrible temptation. It is a tragedy.

And I pray especially for his wife. I cannot even think about what she must be feeling… the pain of it. Poor woman.

Yes, I do feel bad for him. Anyone that does things that are against God’s will must be in some kind of desperation. Any kind of an addict is probably depressed and/or lonely. They need someone to reach out to them and show some compassion. I know he did wrong but none of us are perfect. Yes this minister is probably a drug addict and is bi-sexual and that is wrong. And as angry as this could make some people, he is still only human just as we all are.

We all need each other’s prayers for whatever is troubling us. I try really hard to see Jesus in every person I see. I need God’s grace to do that so I pray for that. Haggard should be no exception, even though it isn’t easy for me. So please pray for me and for him too. And can I ask that we all pray for Catholic Priests too? Thanks and God bless.