Teenage Relationships, and Occasion of Sin

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one thing i love about Catholics, is no matter how stupid, or bad things get, they still treat you with love and respect!http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif
so heres the deal, although my girlfriend and I, well, I am trying my hardest to offer our relationship up to God, obviously teenage hormones still have their good old effect… what i want to know, is what would be considered a Sin, and what is just an Occasion of sin… i.e. kissing (not passionately, but kissing none the less), playful wrestling, holding her in my arms, etc… i am maintaining my best efforts to keep all lustful thoughts out of my head, which has been pretty good so far… and what i really want to know, is if i have been receiveing communion in a state of mortal sin, or if i am being over scrupulous… Eucharistic celebration has been a very confusing one lately for me… i have been contemplating on this for a while, and i need some help of some more educated people(i havent had an opportunity to talk to a preist, deacon, etc)…
so basically:
What is Sin vs Occasion?
Have i been receiving Eucharist in a state of mortal sin?
Thanx in advance
James:irish1:
 
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jax8686:
What is Sin vs Occasion?
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The occassion of sin is when we put ourselves into a situation where we are likely to give into temptation.

Unlike sins, which are fairly objective (e.g. adultery is objectively a sin), the occassion of sin can be very subjective; in other words, things that are an occassion of sin for me, might not be an occassion of sin for someone else (and vice-versa). For example, having an alcoholic drink with my dinner is not an occassion of sin for me, but it might be for a recovering alcoholic.

Interestingly enough, the “new” Catechism is completely silent about the occasion of sin.
 
there are two kinds of “occassions” of sin, planned and unplanned. If you deliberately plan a party when parents are out of town, get some college kid to buy beer for you, choose music to get you wound up, you know perfectly well what is likely to happen.

If you find yourself in a situation you did not plan (we called it running out of gas when I was a kid) you have equal opportunity for wrong-doing, so you have to get out of the situation as quickly as possible.

either way, a situation that makes sin attractive, possible and likely is something to be avoided for your spiritual (and physical) health. If you spend a lot of time partying, or a time alone with gf you are setting yourself up for temptation and sin, common sense tells you to avoid such situations.
 
thanx for the explaination on occasion vs actual… and demolitionman, ive seen that before, but it was a long time ago… thanx for the refresherhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif
:blessyou:
James
 
Let me offer some personal reflection. First off, near occaisions of sin are NOT sins, even if they are set up with the full knowledge that certain circumstances tend to produce certain results.

HOWEVER…planning an occaision of sin because you want to sin is the same as the sin itself; you’re not off the hook just because you accidently couldn’t follow through (though last minute coming to your senses and stopping might mitigate the sin, not sure on that).

Furthermore, take occaisions of sin very, very seriously. When you’re just thinking about things it’s easy to go “it’s nothing major, it’s just a near occaision of sin, and I’ll be extra careful.” Yeah, it’s really easy until you have to go to the Confessional because you did screw up, or you’re 16 and raising a child out of wedlock.

It’s hard to avoid occaisions of sin, and frankly it can get a little ridiculous to constantly be on your guard for even the slightest possibility of sin. We will all slip up at some point, no matter how hard we try, and that’s why God has shown us the mercy of the Confessional. Let me tell you as a brother, however, that virtue feels a LOT better than its opposite in the long run, and you want to get by with as little extra baggage as possible. Take care of yourself, because others aren’t likely to do it when you’re a teenager. Just keep things in perspective, or at least try to through all the raging hormones. It will get easier, I promise, and the fewer scars you have when it does get easier, the better your life will feel.

Good luck, and God bless! 😃
 
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jax8686:
one thing i love about Catholics, is no matter how stupid, or bad things get, they still treat you with love and respect!http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif
so heres the deal, although my girlfriend and I, well, I am trying my hardest to offer our relationship up to God, obviously teenage hormones still have their good old effect… what i want to know, is what would be considered a Sin, and what is just an Occasion of sin… i.e. kissing (not passionately, but kissing none the less), playful wrestling, holding her in my arms, etc… i am maintaining my best efforts to keep all lustful thoughts out of my head, which has been pretty good so far… and what i really want to know, is if i have been receiveing communion in a state of mortal sin, or if i am being over scrupulous… Eucharistic celebration has been a very confusing one lately for me… i have been contemplating on this for a while, and i need some help of some more educated people(i havent had an opportunity to talk to a preist, deacon, etc)…
so basically:
What is Sin vs Occasion?
Have i been receiving Eucharist in a state of mortal sin?
Thanx in advance
James:irish1:
Click to expand...
While I can’t answer your question, I think telling you similar experiences I’ve had might be helpful…

My fiance and I have asked similar questions in the past. We decided to be on the safe side and to wait until marriage for physical contact such as you mentioned.

Kissing on the lips that lasts for more than a second has been an occasion of sin for us. Holding each other tightly has been as well. We used to lie down and hold each other (while reading, or watching a movie, or just resting), and at times this has caused me to feel a lot of longing and desire that shouldn’t be stimulated until marriage! It has caused similar feelings in my fiance.

I felt similar uncertainty about the sinfulness of these actions as you have so we decided to just cut them out. Right now when we are together we keep the door into the room open so that everyone can see what we’re not doing and there’s no danger of committing the sin of scandal. We have limited kissing on the lips to brief pecks that express affection, not desire. When we hug we often make an effort to keep the below-the-waist portions of our bodies slightly separated etc.

The result has been been that we both feel much better about the way we treat each other! We no longer have to worry that someone will see us lying down beside each other and interpret it incorrectly. We no longer have to feel guilty about holding each other an enjoying it because it might be a sin. We feel much more pure.

And above all we don’t have to worry about sinning ourselves or leading each other into sin.

So my advice to you would be to STOP doing everything that you feel doubtful about, and see how your relationship with your girlfriend and with God changes. I am betting it will be for the better.
 
I agree that occasion for sin depends on your sex drive and your self-control.

Perhaps a bit unrelated with the previous thought, but I think one of the reasons you don’t see much about occasion for sin in the new Catechism is that people tend to stretch it. Occasion for occasion for sin. Objective occasion. And so on.

One of the troubles is telling healthy attraction from lust. Lust is bad, even evil, but if you weren’t attracted, you wouldn’t be together. There would be no marriage if people weren’t attracted to other people - who would want that? A related problem is telling excitement from sexual excitement.

The fact that something gives you pleasure of a physical kind doesn’t make it sexual. Kissing your mother or stroking your cat is physical pleasure but the latter is innocent and the former is holy. It’s difficult to mark the moment when lust chimes in, but it must be done.

Saint Thomas Aquinas says things are sinful when your genital parts respond. I would essentially agree, but there are days and situations where merely seeing someone or hearing someone’s voice on the phone sends a thrill down there, while you neither want to have sex nor are in any danger of giving in. Would this still be sinful? I don’t know, but I don’t think we should demand next to impossible things (note: sexual abstinence or marital faithfulness is not a next to impossible thing). I suppose the fact that something can lead you to inappropriate procreative acts is of key importance here and launching your mental sexual imagination is the other axis of the problem. There’s a lot of sense in seeing everything “below” sex through the prism of how it can lead to sex. However, personally, I already have a problem with things which are done out of lust - but not because they are a certain specific physical gesture, but because they are done out of lust.

Where you can seek help is prayer, reading, talking to people, especially to your girlfriend (you are truly blessed if she believes the same you do about chastity). Actually maybe even fasting. Fasting from time to time, devoting time to others, helping people when you would rather play games, fighting addictions of any kind, any sort of exercise of your will is going to help you. Strong will is key in refusing or pulling away, should things come to it. Exercise in politely telling no but still telling no is also a good idea, especially for girls and women.

From the perspective of time, I can tell you I don’t regret my romantic moments with friends of old times, past girlfriends… sometimes even almost strangers. But I do regret any single lustful thought or act - and you don’t need to have had intercourse to have regrets of this kind. Anything which is born of lust is born of evil.

Sometimes, it’s easy to mistake lustful things for romantic things. But it’s possible to do the exact opposite, as well, and to mistake it for lust when someone is merely trying to be romantic. This hurts people a lot, especially women. Book approach doesn’t do the job at all time. Perhaps the old “Would I do this if Jesus were in the room?” principle actually works best, after all.
 
wow, good explainations… yeah, things have gotten better now… i think i was experiencing a sort of whip-lash from my last gf… we’ll just say things werent that holy… i am proud to say i am still a virgin, and i have no intention of that changing before my wedding day. as for my girlfriend, yeah, shes pretty much on the same page in terms of chastity, but her lines are a little foggy… i sent her to look at the pure love club site, which i think helped a bit, and now that we are comfortable together, moreso than when we started going out almost 2 months ago, its a lot easier to determain lustful attraction from healthy attraction, and keep our boundries where we want them… and yeah, the theory by St. Thomas Aquinas about responsive genitals… ill agree with chevalier that its not quite that simple… and if that was the rule… then im in trouble… as well as 99% of the guys out there…:rolleyes: but like i said, things are going good… keep me in your prayers, as well as all teenage guys out there 👋
 
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demolitionman65:
Check out this site for additional support/(name removed by moderator)ut.

pureloveclub.com/
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One of Jason Everet’s example is of caring you girlfriend/boyfriend up to the edge of a canyon in your arms. Then you inch closer and closer, just to see how close you can get without plummenting to your death. If you would never do something so stupid where physical death could result, why risk spiritual death?

I second the above recommendation. Jason Everest was required reading for my two teenagers.
 
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