Temptations necessary, why?

[TheHolyGhost]

I believe Jesus tells the apostles at one point that temptations will always be there and that they are necessary. I think I understand that they are necessary in order to test our faith and to see how strong and sincere it is.

However, how does this reconcile with the fact that God the Father knows all of our hearts and knew them before we were even created? Why does He need us to be tempted to know how strong our faith is when He already knows?

 

[Nita]

I believe Jesus tells the apostles at one point that temptations will always be there and that they are necessary. I think I understand that they are necessary in order to test our faith and to see how strong and sincere it is.

However, how does this reconcile with the fact that God the Father knows all of our hearts and knew them before we were even created? Why does He need us to be tempted to know how strong our faith is when He already knows?

It’s not so that He can know, it’s so that** we **can know.

It’s easy for one who’s never experienced a strong temptation, to think and truly believe their faith and will to resist sin is strong. But he/she is often shocked to discover just how weak their will actually is when they are actually with a strong temptation.

It is through being tempted and continually striving to choose the right response that our will and faith is strengthened.

 

[TheHolyGhost]

It’s not so that He can know, it’s so that** we **can know.

It’s easy for one who’s never experienced a strong temptation, to think and truly believe their faith and will to resist sin is strong. But he/she is often shocked to discover just how weak their will actually is when they are actually with a strong temptation.

It is through being tempted and continually striving to choose the right response that our will and faith is strengthened.

It makes sense to a degree, but how does this make sense for a God whos thirst for soul s to be saved is insatiable, who is love itself, to put His already wounded servants to be subjected to satan and his temptations when its already difficult to follow Gods ways without temptations as it is?

Playing with souls and their eternity doesnt sound like a good idea. What if the temptations are so strong it complete ly defeats the persons faith? It sounds almost malicious in a way. Isnt there perhaps another way to show us that we are weak?

 

[1ke]

Temptation exists due to our fallen nature. It is not “necessary”, it is a fact. Free will existed from the beginning, our first parents chose to go against God and therefore we live in a fallen state.

 

[TheHolyGhost]

Temptation exists due to our fallen nature. It is not “necessary”, it is a fact. Free will existed from the beginning, our first parents chose to go against God and therefore we live in a fallen state.

This sparks two thoughts…

Jesus says in scripture theyre “necessary.” What do I make of that?

Jesus did not have a fallen nature, yet was tempted.

 

[MaryT777]

This sparks two thoughts…

Jesus says in scripture theyre “necessary.” What do I make of that?

Jesus did not have a fallen nature, yet was tempted.

Matthew:
Watch and pray that you may not undergo the test.* The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

 

[bzkoss236]

I would say that temptation is necessary for free will to really be free.

Without temptations, we could really only choose the good.

It’s like with dictatorships where they have an election, but only allow the current dictator to run, so the people have no choice but to vote for him. It’s not a free choice system.

With temptations, such as the tree in the garden, we are given a choice so that we can exercise our free will in relation to choosing for God (good) or against God (evil).

And for temptations to really be tempting, it needs to be something that we desire, some vice that would inevitably lead us away from God.

 

[Nita]

It makes sense to a degree, but how does this make sense for a God whos thirst for soul s to be saved is insatiable, who is love itself, to put His already wounded servants to be subjected to satan and his temptations when its already difficult to follow Gods ways without temptations as it is?

Playing with souls and their eternity doesnt sound like a good idea. What if the temptations are so strong it complete ly defeats the persons faith? It sounds almost malicious in a way. Isnt there perhaps another way to show us that we are weak?

Yes, He thirsts for souls. And that thirst includes a desire for us to experience eternity to the highest degree of blessedness possible for us. The more we can develop/expand/strengthen virtues (good powers of the soul - virtue means power), the greater capacity we’ll have for the joys of heaven.

Virtues can only be developed by “exercising” them. Exercising them requires experiencing situations where they must be used. Eg. patience; to develop this virtue means experiencing a situation where we must use it – in other words, something that tries our patience. A situation where we would be tempted to fly off the handle and get angry. As we continue to experience more situations and increase the times when we say no to getting angry, the virtue of patience gets stronger.
(It’s kind of like a weight lifter who wants to build up his muscles. He’ll never develop a certain muscle unless he lifts weights that make him use that muscle.)

 

[TheHolyGhost]

Yes, He thirsts for souls. And that thirst includes a desire for us to experience eternity to the highest degree of blessedness possible for us. The more we can develop/expand/strengthen virtues (good powers of the soul - virtue means power), the greater capacity we’ll have for the joys of heaven.

Virtues can only be developed by “exercising” them. Exercising them requires experiencing situations where they must be used. Eg. patience; to develop this virtue means experiencing a situation where we must use it – in other words, something that tries our patience. A situation where we would be tempted to fly off the handle and get angry. As we continue to experience more situations and increase the times when we say no to getting angry, the virtue of patience gets stronger.
(It’s kind of like a weight lifter who wants to build up his muscles. He’ll never develop a certain muscle unless he lifts weights that make him use that muscle.)

If I truly want something so bad, I make sure to be cautious and as conservative as possible to make sure that I get it. It seems going the route of allowing temptation to bring out potential greatness is a very risky way of going about it, especially if it can have an adverse effect and damn souls for eternity.

Maximizing muscular hypertrophy and strength can be achieved in a number of different ways that give the same result though. Some people lift barbells with high volume of sets, while others take a powerlifting approach and lift heavier but fewer, yet while others use kettle bells and still others who take a strongman approach and lift boulders and tree logs. They all build muscle and strength.

Instead of bringing out potential greatness through a very risky method, especially when your desire for souls to be saved is so great,couldnt there be another more conservative way to do that?

As it is Jesus is the eternal example of how perfect He is and no other person will ever match up to his greatness, not even close. I think if we compare ourselves to that kind of perfection, we will always see how weak and imperfect we are. Do we really need strong temptations to show us what we already know?

 

[Nita]

Instead of bringing out potential greatness through a very risky method, especially when your desire for souls to be saved is so great,couldnt there be another more conservative way to do that?

How would you suggest God should do it?

As it is Jesus is the eternal example of how perfect He is and no other person will ever match up to his greatness, not even close. I think if we compare ourselves to that kind of perfection, we will always see how weak and imperfect we are.

I agree.

Do we really need strong temptations to show us what we already know?

God doesn’t send us more than we can handle
1 Cor. 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it. .

 

[TheHolyGhost]

How would you suggest God should do it?

Couldn’t He just illuminate our consciences or allow us to know the condition of our souls if he feels we are becoming too comfortable in our wrongly perceived “strong faith”? It doesn’t seem like there’s a lot that is put on the line with this. Doesn’t feel like there are games with eternal consequences being played here, just complete revelation on where we need to improve. Like I said previously though, we already know where we need to improve. It doesn’t matter how good we think we are, in comparison to Jesus we are still nothing and can always improve and do more. We already know this.

God doesn’t send us more than we can handle
1 Cor. 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it. .

I’m sure that is very true, but allowing temptation to come our way seems like it would be something along the lines of “occasion of sin” or needlessly putting us in a situation where we could end up messing up big time and very badly, whereas if He hadn’t put us or allowed us to be put in a certain situation we wouldn’t have otherwise acted a certain way that offends Him.

So yes, while temptation can be one way of bringing about potential greatness, it can also be a way of bringing about potential sinfulness that separates us from Him that we otherwise may have not engaged in if we were not tempted or if we were not put in a particular desperate situation. For God who wants us with Him so badly, much more than we want to be with Him and can imagine, this way sounds too risky.

 

[Nita]

Couldn’t He just illuminate our consciences or allow us to know the condition of our souls if he feels we are becoming too comfortable in our wrongly perceived “strong faith”? It doesn’t seem like there’s a lot that is put on the line with this. Doesn’t feel like there are games with eternal consequences being played here, just complete revelation on where we need to improve. Like I said previously though, we already know where we need to improve. It doesn’t matter how good we think we are, in comparison to Jesus we are still nothing and can always improve and do more. We already know this.

It isn’t only learning the condition of our souls, it’s correcting it’s defects, and developing and strengthening virtues. Faith is only one of the 7 virtues. We do not strengthen faith, or any of the virtues, by just sitting around thinking about it.

I’m sure that is very true, but allowing temptation to come our way seems like it would be something along the lines of “occasion of sin” or needlessly putting us in a situation where we could end up messing up big time and very badly, whereas if He hadn’t put us or allowed us to be put in a certain situation we wouldn’t have otherwise acted a certain way that offends Him

So yes, while temptation can be one way of bringing about potential greatness, it can also be a way of bringing about potential sinfulness that separates us from Him that we otherwise may have not engaged in if we were not tempted or if we were not put in a particular desperate situation. For God who wants us with Him so badly, much more than we want to be with Him and can imagine, this way sounds too risky.

We are not to stay weak infants spiritually.

Read the parable of the talents (Matt. 25:14- ) and pounds (Luke 19:12 - ). The talents and pounds don’t refer only to the physical gifts God has granted us, but also to the spiritual graces He’s given us to develop and strengthen our souls.

 

[fred_conty]

I believe Jesus tells the apostles at one point that temptations will always be there and that they are necessary. I think I understand that they are necessary in order to test our faith and to see how strong and sincere it is.

However, how does this reconcile with the fact that God the Father knows all of our hearts and knew them before we were even created? Why does He need us to be tempted to know how strong our faith is when He already knows?

I think temptation is just a part of normal life.

A teenager walks out of a store and sees a bike leaning against a pole. He thinks that he could take the bike and get home a lot quicker. Now he has a choice to make…temptation.

A man is sitting at the race track drinking beer with his friends. He’s had two already. A buddie offers him another. Now he has a choice to make…temptation.

A student has an exam to face in 2 days. He comes home tired and thinks he might just skip study tonight and go to bed. Now he has a choice to make…temptation.

And so on.

It is just a part of life, and we can’t live in the world without being subjected to it.

The equation of the devil just adds to it. His adjenda is our soul…temptation.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Nita]

I think temptation is just a part of normal life.

A teenager walks out of a store and sees a bike leaning against a pole. He thinks that he could take the bike and get home a lot quicker. Now he has a choice to make…temptation.

A man is sitting at the race track drinking beer with his friends. He’s had two already. A buddie offers him another. Now he has a choice to make…temptation.

A student has an exam to face in 2 days. He comes home tired and thinks he might just skip study tonight and go to bed. Now he has a choice to make…temptation.

And so on.

It is just a part of life, and we can’t live in the world without being subjected to it.

The equation of the devil just adds to it. His adjenda is our soul…temptation.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Joy2day]

If I truly want something so bad, I make sure to be cautious and as conservative as possible to make sure that I get it. It seems going the route of allowing temptation to bring out potential greatness is a very risky way of going about it, especially if it can have an adverse effect and damn souls for eternity.

Maximizing muscular hypertrophy and strength can be achieved in a number of different ways that give the same result though. Some people lift barbells with high volume of sets, while others take a powerlifting approach and lift heavier but fewer, yet while others use kettle bells and still others who take a strongman approach and lift boulders and tree logs. They all build muscle and strength.

Instead of bringing out potential greatness through a very risky method, especially when your desire for souls to be saved is so great,couldnt there be another more conservative way to do that?

As it is Jesus is the eternal example of how perfect He is and no other person will ever match up to his greatness, not even close. I think if we compare ourselves to that kind of perfection, we will always see how weak and imperfect we are. Do we really need strong temptations to show us what we already know?

I think you are spot on here. St Therese of Lisieux said she knew she was weak and that therefore she trusted all the more in Jesus who would protect her. She knew that on her own she could not manage. However in knowing this, we don’t try to put God to the test, via putting ourselves in the way of temptation just to test whether God will save us.

 

[fhansen]

It makes sense to a degree, but how does this make sense for a God whos thirst for soul s to be saved is insatiable, who is love itself, to put His already wounded servants to be subjected to satan and his temptations when its already difficult to follow Gods ways without temptations as it is?

Playing with souls and their eternity doesnt sound like a good idea. What if the temptations are so strong it complete ly defeats the persons faith? It sounds almost malicious in a way. Isnt there perhaps another way to show us that we are weak?

He won’t violate our wills to save us. Our wills coming into alignment with His, with the help of His grace but without force, with grace that we can resist, IOW, is how we are saved. His thirst for souls to be saved* by freely choosing the good*, by freely choosing* Him*, is insatiable. This is all part of the molding/forming process, of the divine Potter doing His work of salvation in us, with our cooperation, so that the end result is greater than the material He began with, due to, again, our part that’s contributed, and yet our part that’s being *drawn *by Him to contribute.

 

[TheHolyGhost]

He won’t violate our wills to save us. Our wills coming into alignment with His, with the help of His grace but without force, with grace that we can resist, IOW, is how we are saved. His thirst for souls to be saved* by freely choosing the good*, by freely choosing* Him*, is insatiable. This is all part of the molding/forming process, of the divine Potter doing His work of salvation in us, with our cooperation, so that the end result is greater than the material He began with, due to, again, our part that’s contributed, and yet our part that’s being *drawn *by Him to contribute.

I understand that, but by allowing us to be tempted He allows our free will that chooses Him to be weakened, and eventually falling and failing to live up to His laws. And should we die in an unfortunate.circumstance, we would then forever be lost. It seems like someone who wants us to choose Him so bad is sure taking a lot of chances to lose us or doesnt seem like hes that enthusiastic about us choosing Him -otherwise He would take.as little risky chances as possible.

Jesus also reiterated a few times throughout scripture that it would have been better certain individuals were not born than for them to descend into hell. Yet with this admission and Gods divine foreknowledge that many souls would be damned and take the easy way, that He still allowed those individuals to be born only to fall or potentially suffer hell seems rather cruel, even if it were the free choice of those individuals.

 

[fhansen]

I understand that, but by allowing us to be tempted He allows our free will that chooses Him to be weakened, and eventually falling and failing to live up to His laws. And should we die in an unfortunate.circumstance, we would then forever be lost. It seems like someone who wants us to choose Him so bad is sure taking a lot of chances to lose us or doesnt seem like hes that enthusiastic about us choosing Him -otherwise He would take.as little risky chances as possible.

But alternatively our wills can be exercised, and so strengthened. And that’s where our own part comes in-to take the grace He’s given us and produce more with it, or not to, as the wicked and lazy servant did in the Parable of the Talents. And He’s patient and kind and has a heart greater and grander than anything we can possibly imagine-He’d be the last being in existence to allow us to fall and remain fallen unless we simply, adamantly, persistently refuse to turn to Him.