Tender minded or Tough minded?

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I was listening to one of Peter Kreeft’s audio tracts, and heard him reference tough-mindedness and tender-mindedness.
Tender minds put happiness above truth, practice above theory, and they start with subjective feelings and look outwardly at objective facts.
Tough minds put truth above happiness, theory above practice, and they start with objective facts and look inwardly at subjective feelings.
My question is: What are you, tender-minded or tough-minded and why?
I am tough minded. Truth is definitely more important than happiness, it is always better to think before you act, and knowing the facts can help you understand your feelings.
 
Definately tough minded. If I was more into happiness than truth I’d join one of those positive thinking, pop psychology ‘institutes’. Anyone who is a catholic, or even a christian is tough minded to SOME extent. Hey, they believe that they are hell bound sinners in need of redemption don’t they?😉
 
Veritas248 said:
I was listening to one of Peter Kreeft’s audio tracts, and heard him reference tough-mindedness and tender-mindedness.
Tender minds put happiness above truth, practice above theory, and they start with subjective feelings and look outwardly at objective facts.
Tough minds put truth above happiness, theory above practice, and they start with objective facts and look inwardly at subjective feelings.
My question is: What are you, tender-minded or tough-minded and why?
I am tough minded. Truth is definitely more important than happiness, it is always better to think before you act, and knowing the facts can help you understand your feelings.
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Your question is a false dichotomy.

Catholic teaching states:

God is Truth
God is Happiness
God is Merciful
God is Unchanging
Truth = Happiness

My Opinion:

I seek mercy under the rule of unchanging truth.
 
Quote “Tender minds put happiness above truth, practice above theory, and they start with subjective feelings and look outwardly at objective facts.
Tough minds put truth above happiness, theory above practice, and they start with objective facts and look inwardly at subjective feelings.”

As a parent I have been both with the child… depending on what they needed at the time. How did I know what they needed?
As a friend, I have been both to the other, and they to me.
As a spouse, where does Love fit?

There is a thing called ‘intuition’ that seems to be a mix of both, or neither.

Tender or Tough refers not to qualities of the mind, but rather the heart (emotions, feelings), which are normally ‘subjective’ in a ‘rational’ sense.

If you like a Rose… what way is that going, and WHY?
If you like the Sunset… if you dislike the Rain… etc. Are any of these going in only ONE direction at the same time?

Life (and living) are ‘subjective’ in nature. As such, it is much more then Tender or Tough. If living was ‘objective’, we would not have need for feelings, emotions, spirit or soul, we would only need the five senses. But even here, what is hot or cold, soft or rough, and how do you subjectively evaluate that?

To me, putting it in two categories it too simplistic when relating it to, first the mind, and second the way information is processed.
 
I think one can be tough minded, but combine reason and emotion, practice and theory, and facts and feelings in a harmonious way. It is not easy, but it is achievable.
 
Veritas248 said:
I was listening to one of Peter Kreeft’s audio tracts, and heard him reference tough-mindedness and tender-mindedness.
Tender minds put happiness above truth, practice above theory, and they start with subjective feelings and look outwardly at objective facts.
Tough minds put truth above happiness, theory above practice, and they start with objective facts and look inwardly at subjective feelings.
My question is: What are you, tender-minded or tough-minded and why?
I am tough minded. Truth is definitely more important than happiness, it is always better to think before you act, and knowing the facts can help you understand your feelings.
Click to expand...

IMHO, these contrasts are far too simplified to be of any value whatever; they are far too sweeping, & (at least as reported), lacking in any nuance. It is far from obvious that happiness & truth can or should be contrasted or separated in the way described.​

It seems fashionable to denounce subjectivity wherever it - or anything that can be called subjectivity in any sense - is detected; which strongly suggests that subjectivity is very necessary. When everyone is agreed in an opinion, that probably means they are to some extent mistaken.
 
Veritas248 said:
I was listening to one of Peter Kreeft’s audio tracts, and heard him reference tough-mindedness and tender-mindedness.
Tender minds put happiness above truth, practice above theory, and they start with subjective feelings and look outwardly at objective facts.
Tough minds put truth above happiness, theory above practice, and they start with objective facts and look inwardly at subjective feelings.
My question is: What are you, tender-minded or tough-minded and why?
I am tough minded. Truth is definitely more important than happiness, it is always better to think before you act, and knowing the facts can help you understand your feelings.
Click to expand...
I don’t know which tract you are referring to, but I have heard Prof. Kreeft talk about tender heartedness and tough mindedness. That is to say, we should all be big softies when it comes to our hearts, in touch with the feelings, joys and worries of others, as well as our own. But we should never compromise what we know to be true. A tender heart and a tough mind are necessary complements; they do not, and cannot conflict.
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

IMHO, these contrasts are far too simplified to be of any value whatever; they are far too sweeping, & (at least as reported), lacking in any nuance. It is far from obvious that happiness & truth can or should be contrasted or separated in the way described.​

It seems fashionable to denounce subjectivity wherever it - or anything that can be called subjectivity in any sense - is detected; which strongly suggests that subjectivity is very necessary. When everyone is agreed in an opinion, that probably means they are to some extent mistaken.
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INDEED!
Perhaps the proper “DICHOTOMY” would be subjective vs. objective.
In where an idea is related to on how one ‘feels’ towards it as opposed to the empirical facts of any given situation.
If I throw a rock up into the air it will most likely objectively land on the earth. It is not SUBJECT to whether you believe it will land or not.
🤷
 
Surprising. I ask a straightforward question and I get something entirely different.
I have a couple answers to the various responses I have gotten.
To those who talk about the necessity of subjectivity:
I agree. If I am not mistaken, Pope John Paul II said something more or less in line with this: The result of making the subjective objective is totalitarianism, and the result of making the objective things subjective is anarchy.
To the one who asked me about what tract I was listening to: #18 God’s Existence (on his website). It was a quote from William James. It is about 10:40 seconds.
Otherwise, I am very surprised. I was expecting straightforward answers, but I got only one and anything else is far from straightforward.
 
Veritas248 said:
Surprising. I ask a straightforward question and I get something entirely different.
I have a couple answers to the various responses I have gotten.
To those who talk about the necessity of subjectivity:
I agree. If I am not mistaken, Pope John Paul II said something more or less in line with this: The result of making the subjective objective is totalitarianism, and the result of making the objective things subjective is anarchy.
To the one who asked me about what tract I was listening to: #18 God’s Existence (on his website). It was a quote from William James. It is about 10:40 seconds.
Otherwise, I am very surprised. I was expecting straightforward answers, but I got only one and anything else is far from straightforward.
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this is actually very intereting for some reason and i’d like to read more on this
 
Veritas248 said:
To the one who asked me about what tract I was listening to: #18 God’s Existence (on his website). It was a quote from William James. It is about 10:40 seconds.
Click to expand...
Okay, thanks. Knowing what Kreeft said, in context, I don’t think anybody would call themselves “tender-minded” because he means irrational.

But remember, there are a lot of people who never doubt God’s existence and get by just fine without seeking after proofs. I know “tender-minded” people who are oftentimes better disciples of Christ than I.

I am a Doubting Thomas, but Jesus says “blessed are those who have not seen, but have believed.” I’m one of those people who have to “see,” or have proof, before believing, and I don’t think that puts me in a better situation that someone with a simple , “tender-minded” faith.
 
I’m toughminded, esp. when it comes to the teachings of the Church and morals.

But, this question reminds me of a general difference in the way feminine minds and masculine minds work. Generalizing of course, a woman considers relationship ties when coming to a decision. The consequence on a relationship is part of the logic that leads to the answer. And, a man generally is not very concerned with relationship ties. So, a woman’s logic encompasses more than the hard facts–it includes the impact on the network of family and friends. Often, men will say a woman’s decision is illogical because he doesn’t calculate using all the factors that a woman uses. While, a woman can’t understand while the man doesn’t see the clear (to her) logic of her decisions

Do you think that there can be other factors besides the objective facts that can help form a decision?

I also think that good priests often operate both out of an toughmindedness–knowing Truth, but also out of a pastoral love. They lead people to the Truth, but gently as the layperson is able to digest it and incorporate it into their lives.

So, then, can you be toughminded and still be sensitive to how to apply that toughmindedness?

Just some things I’m pondering when I should be going to bed. Too late for the philosophy forum, perhaps? 🙂
 
leonie said:
I’m toughminded, esp. when it comes to the teachings of the Church and morals.

But, this question reminds me of a general difference in the way feminine minds and masculine minds work. Generalizing of course, a woman considers relationship ties when coming to a decision. The consequence on a relationship is part of the logic that leads to the answer. And, a man generally is not very concerned with relationship ties. So, a woman’s logic encompasses more than the hard facts–it includes the impact on the network of family and friends. Often, men will say a woman’s decision is illogical because he doesn’t calculate using all the factors that a woman uses. While, a woman can’t understand while the man doesn’t see the clear (to her) logic of her decisions

Do you think that there can be other factors besides the objective facts that can help form a decision?

I also think that good priests often operate both out of an toughmindedness–knowing Truth, but also out of a pastoral love. They lead people to the Truth, but gently as the layperson is able to digest it and incorporate it into their lives.

So, then, can you be toughminded and still be sensitive to how to apply that toughmindedness?

Just some things I’m pondering when I should be going to bed. Too late for the philosophy forum, perhaps? 🙂
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Of course there are other factors. If I’m not mistaken, starting with objective facts does not mean the exclusion of all other factors, it simply means that the tough-minded person looks at the factors which are independent of their own opinions first. The decisions that they make are more credible when the facts are defined first. Otherwise, one may well make the mistake of mistaking feelings or opinions as facts, and that leads to dangerous relativism.
 
GIMJ said:
Okay, thanks. Knowing what Kreeft said, in context, I don’t think anybody would call themselves “tender-minded” because he means irrational.

But remember, there are a lot of people who never doubt God’s existence and get by just fine without seeking after proofs. I know “tender-minded” people who are oftentimes better disciples of Christ than I.

I am a Doubting Thomas, but Jesus says “blessed are those who have not seen, but have believed.” I’m one of those people who have to “see,” or have proof, before believing, and I don’t think that puts me in a better situation that someone with a simple , “tender-minded” faith.
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Well said.
 
OK
After reading this thread with a few more postings I suppose I am a tough-minded person who has been tenderized with by the spices and salt of Christ and the heavy gavel/tenderizer of The Fathers Chastisement.

analogies…🤷

RCIA starts tonight!👍
 
I call BS on this author. The greatest truth we have access to in the world is not somebody’s idea; it is compassion for our fellow human beings. Human beings were made in the image of God, and there is more truth in the person next door to you than in all the blabberings of books and words.

That’s one way to interpret what is otherwise incomprehensible early Church writings about “demons.” In theology demons were defined as fallen angels, and angels are purely intellectual beings not bounded by time or space. So in that sense the “demons” we encounter are ideologies. It’s pretty easy to see how destructive ideology or tyrannical rule by thought can be in the modern world.

“Tough minded” people have done more harm than any others in our history, because that “toughness” is scarcely-veiled cruelty and callousness to the human person.

Tender hearts come closer to spiritual truth than any minds led by the latest ideological diatribe.
 
The BS is on you. I’m not talking about other people’s ideas. I’m talking about Truth. Plain and simple.

Demons as ideology? Yeah, right. Or they can really be fallen angels.

You are also wrong about the tough minded. Obviously you have a misunderstanding about the question. It is not tough-minded vs. tender-hearted, its tough-minded vs. tender-minded! Tough-minded people put truth first. Truth such as the objective moral law. They are do not want to live in lies, even if it makes them happy. It’s them who discovered many of the comforts we enjoy today. Like the laws or logic for instance.

It is tough-hearted people that have the cruelty you mention. They lack love for others, choosing instead hate and bitterness.

I think you had a misunderstanding of terms.
 
Veritas248 said:
The BS is on you. I’m not talking about other people’s ideas. I’m talking about Truth. Plain and simple.

Demons as ideology? Yeah, right. Or they can really be fallen angels.

You are also wrong about the tough minded. Obviously you have a misunderstanding about the question. It is not tough-minded vs. tender-hearted, its tough-minded vs. tender-minded! Tough-minded people put truth first. Truth such as the objective moral law. They are do not want to live in lies, even if it makes them happy. It’s them who discovered many of the comforts we enjoy today. Like the laws or logic for instance.

It is tough-hearted people that have the cruelty you mention. They lack love for others, choosing instead hate and bitterness.

I think you had a misunderstanding of terms.
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Check Thomas Aquinas and early Church Fathers for what a demon is. It is a Greek term that has a certain meaning, aside from the fairy tales woven around it. Angels are pure intelligences. That means beings of pure “thought” but not limited by time or space as human thought is.

So tough-mindedness means adhering (as much as a human can) to some pure idea. Question is, is that idea in line with the Creator or is it a fallen or corrupted idea/ideal? History gives us many examples of people claiming to act on pure motives or ideas being responsible for tremendous cruelty. Many of these people have clothed themselves in a sanctimonious but false appearance.That history should give caution to any “tough minded” people.

Real Truth is humble. Jesus did not appear as a genius philosopher or priest or political leader. He appeared as a humble carpenter who spoke in parables with plain meanings.
 
Maybe these people described as “tender-minded” are skeptics. So, when given a chance to make a practical decision, they don’t base it upon something they think it cannot be based upon (truth). Like, “I can’t really know the truth about this Christian God, but I’m rather scared by the cost/benefit analysis if I don’t try to believe in him, so it seems prudent to believe.” or “I can’t tell if the Mormons or the Catholics are right, there is too much misinformation and I don’t have three lifetimes to attempt to obtain good info, so about my friend Bob here, I won’t shake my finger at him and tell him how dumb he is until I have more info because I can’t see what good it would do right now.”
 
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