Textual Concordance Confusion

[paramedicgirl]

I looked up the Trinity in my textual concordance of Holy Scripture, (Douay Rheims version) and on page 737 there is one that I cannot find in my bible to match it - "And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one". It says 1 John v7, but it doesn’t match my bible. There is a footnote attached, and I’m wondering if any of you have come across this and can explain to me why it’s there if it’s not the biblical verse…

 

[JaneFrances]

I ran into that text not too long ago in my own version of the textual concordance–wondering if we have the same one? My bible translates 1 John 5:7: “Thus there are three that testify, the Spirit and the water and the blood–and these three ar of one accord.”

My follow-up question is if perhaps this verse is translated elsewhere equating the water with the Father and the blood with the Son. I haven’t any idea. In my personal research, I took the easy way out and just skipped it. I’m interested to know if someone can be more helpful!

 

[thistle]

JaneFrances:

I ran into that text not too long ago in my own version of the textual concordance–wondering if we have the same one? My bible translates 1 John 5:7: “Thus there are three that testify, the Spirit and the water and the blood–and these three ar of one accord.”

My follow-up question is if perhaps this verse is translated elsewhere equating the water with the Father and the blood with the Son. I haven’t any idea. In my personal research, I took the easy way out and just skipped it. I’m interested to know if someone can be more helpful!

In my Catholic Study Bible (NAB) the verse is as you have quoted.
In the notes it says the water and blood refers to Christ’s baptism and to the shedding of his blood on the cross, and the Spirit was present at the baptism.

 

[Verbum]

Hi Paramedic___,

The part you speak about, that is absent in most contemporary bibles, is absent from the oldest Greek manuscripts and from the most reliable manuscripts of the Vulgate. It is thought that it was originally a marginal note that was at some point introduced into the original text.

Verbum

 

[Todd_Easton]

7 And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

The Johannine Comma, as it is called, is in the Douay-Rheims Bible (above). The Comma is in the 1941 Confraternity Bible but in square brackets with a footnote indicating that it is missing from most early Bible manuscripts. The Comma is entirely absent from the 1970 New American Bible.

As far as Protestant Bibles go, the Comma is in the King James Version but it is absent from both the 1901 American Standard Version and the 1946 Revised Standard Version.

Historically, the Johannine Comma seems to have been known to early Christians at least by the third century. For example, Cyprian of Carthage wrote in A.D. 251:
The Lord says, “The Father and I are one;” and again, it is written of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, “And the three are one.” (The Unity of the Catholic Church)

 

[jimmy]

paramedicgirl:

I looked up the Trinity in my textual concordance of Holy Scripture, (Douay Rheims version) and on page 737 there is one that I cannot find in my bible to match it - "And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one". It says 1 John v7, but it doesn’t match my bible. There is a footnote attached, and I’m wondering if any of you have come across this and can explain to me why it’s there if it’s not the biblical verse…

Here is the Douay version

7 And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

drbo.org/chapter/69005.htm

This is the KJV verse

7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=5357535

 

[paramedicgirl]

jimmy:

Here is the Douay version

7 And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

drbo.org/chapter/69005.htm

This is the KJV verse

7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=5357535

Would you happen to know what the JW’s NWT bible says about this verse? I bet they have totally deleted it from their bible.

 

[Anima_Christi]

I think it is generally agreed that 1 John 5:7 is a later addition and wasn’t originally part of the text, much like “For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory forever” was not originally part of the Our Father but was added by a scribe later on and it is still recited that way by Protestants. In addition to being in the Douay-Rheims, that verse also appears in the Protestant King James Version, but no other English version has it as far as I know.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Anima Christi:

I think it is generally agreed that 1 John 5:7 is a later addition and wasn’t originally part of the text, much like “For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory forever” was not originally part of the Our Father but was added by a scribe later on and it is still recited that way by Protestants. In addition to being in the Douay-Rheims, that verse also appears in the Protestant King James Version, but no other English version has it as far as I know.

We recite the Our Father that way in our church. Interesting, because I always thought it was the protestant version. So why do Catholics also use it during Mass?

 

[jimmy]

paramedicgirl:

Would you happen to know what the JW’s NWT bible says about this verse? I bet they have totally deleted it from their bible.

The JW bible doesn’t have that verse and it changes several other verses to make it so their bible can’t be used to defend the Trinity.