That lovin' feelin'

[mark_a]

Quite a few Catholics seem to wonder about the lack of brotherhood, lack of community feeling, or lack of whatever we feel in our own churches as compared to Protestant churches.

Are we looking to the Church for a substitute family because we are keeping our own families too small?

 

[otm]

'Given that lack was there pre Vatican 2, I kind of doubt it.

 

[Catholic2003]

Vatican II’s Decree on Ecumenism even commented on it:

For although the Catholic Church has been endowed with all divinely revealed truth and with all means of grace, yet its members fail to live by them with all the fervor that they should, so that the radiance of the Church’s image is less clear in the eyes of our separated brethren and of the world at large, and the growth of God’s kingdom is delayed.

 

[Fashina86]

mark a:

Quite a few Catholics seem to wonder about the lack of brotherhood, lack of community feeling, or lack of whatever we feel in our own churches as compared to Protestant churches.

Are we looking to the Church for a substitute family because we are keeping our own families too small?

In a way, I fear that the need for a large body of the Church in increasing due to the lack of a family life because of society’s influence on the outlook of many people. It is quite sad that families are so small, but good that the Church is trying to strenghten itself through family ties. Still, I think that it is better to have a large family strong in faith as well and a strong and united Chruch family!

 

[MooCowSteph]

This is actually something I’ve thought about quite a bit. I probably won’t be able to put my thoughts into words very well, but maybe I’ll get my point across. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that many protestant churches haven’t been around that long. They have a different focus, a different attitude toward what a church should be. A Catholic church is there to provide a place for people to worship the Lord and receive the body and blood of the Lord. Many protestant churches are there to provide a place to worship, but also a place to take your kids to daycare, a place to have picnics and volley ball tournaments, to provide a safe haven for teens, and other social things. I’m not saying these things are bad. If you go to a Catholic church with a big sense of community, you will likely find an active youth ministry and other social activities. But if people are of the attitude that they visit church on Sunday and then forget about it the rest of the week, you are going to end of with a church where no one knows anyone else’s name and there is no fellowship.

A friend of mine is actually a little bothered by these Catholic churches with a lot of social activities. She says it’s not a social club; it’s a place to worship. She’s right. But if we have our priorities straight, a church can be both socially engaging and spiritually engaging.

I think it’s very important to have that sense of community and fellowship. We should all get involved and get programs started. Organize a “coffee and donuts” hour after Mass, get involved in YM, or join the pastoral council.

 

[mark_a]

'Given that lack was there pre Vatican 2, I kind of doubt it.

Is Vatican II the dividing line between large and small U.S. Catholic families, or have Catholic family numbers folowed the same timeline as everyone else?

 

[carol_marie]

I think people in the past felt more of a sense of community in their neighborhoods. They knew everyone on the block & hung out on the front porch to visit. Nowadays more often than not both parents are working, kids are in day care, people move every few years and we’re just too stressed out & tired to make connections in our neighborhood. Instead of hanging out on our porches, we’re in the a/c watching TV. But we miss that sense of connection & belonging and the Protestant Churches often fill that with their non stop activities.

If I wanted a church full of friends, bible studies every night of the week, mom’s clubs, sports clubs & a group meeting for whatever ails me - if I wanted it to be only about ME - I’d be Protestant. I wanted Jesus though. I wanted it to be only about Him. And that’s why I’m Catholic.

 

[otm]

MooCowSteph:

This is actually something I’ve thought about quite a bit. I probably won’t be able to put my thoughts into words very well, but maybe I’ll get my point across. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that many protestant churches haven’t been around that long. They have a different focus, a different attitude toward what a church should be. A Catholic church is there to provide a place for people to worship the Lord and receive the body and blood of the Lord. Many protestant churches are there to provide a place to worship, but also a place to take your kids to daycare, a place to have picnics and volley ball tournaments, to provide a safe haven for teens, and other social things. I’m not saying these things are bad. If you go to a Catholic church with a big sense of community, you will likely find an active youth ministry and other social activities. But if people are of the attitude that they visit church on Sunday and then forget about it the rest of the week, you are going to end of with a church where no one knows anyone else’s name and there is no fellowship.

A friend of mine is actually a little bothered by these Catholic churches with a lot of social activities. She says it’s not a social club; it’s a place to worship. She’s right. But if we have our priorities straight, a church can be both socially engaging and spiritually engaging.

I think it’s very important to have that sense of community and fellowship. We should all get involved and get programs started. Organize a “coffee and donuts” hour after Mass, get involved in YM, or join the pastoral council.

You might suggest to your friend that she re-read the New Testament, and sit with a pencil and piece of paper and not how many times we are told to go to Mass on Sunday (which was a given - hardly mentioned at all) and how many times Christ, or the Epistle writers, talk about our duty to one another. I would suggest that living out the Gospel is done both by worship and by our actions; actions to our immediate community of faith, to our social community, to our physical community, and to the community we don’t know and ignore.

I think you said it rather well.

 

[otm]

mark a:

Is Vatican II the dividing line between large and small U.S. Catholic families, or have Catholic family numbers folowed the same timeline as everyone else?

Pretty much the same line of statistics as everyone else.

Many seem to be of the opinion that prior to the Pill, Catholics didn’t contracept at all, and with the introduction of Humanae Vitae, 80% went to their local OB/Gyn and got a prescription. te door to widespread use of contraception started in 1930 with the Lambeth Conference of the Episcopal?Anglican Church, and it spread quickly from there, as did adultery, fornication, and the attendant “need” for abortions.

 

[otm]

carol marie:

I think people in the past felt more of a sense of community in their neighborhoods. They knew everyone on the block & hung out on the front porch to visit. Nowadays more often than not both parents are working, kids are in day care, people move every few years and we’re just too stressed out & tired to make connections in our neighborhood. Instead of hanging out on our porches, we’re in the a/c watching TV. But we miss that sense of connection & belonging and the Protestant Churches often fill that with their non stop activities.

If I wanted a church full of friends, bible studies every night of the week, mom’s clubs, sports clubs & a group meeting for whatever ails me - if I wanted it to be only about ME - I’d be Protestant. I wanted Jesus though. I wanted it to be only about Him. And that’s why I’m Catholic.

while there are a number of activities which are mostly social in nature, or at least not directly religious in nature in some of our Protestant churches (and those with the greates number of activities seem to be the mega-churches), I would walk softly when saying that the activities are ME oriented; there are many Protestants in Bible studies and faith sharing groups because they, too, want Jesus.

And while you may want Church to be only about Him, may I remind you that all about Him includes the Body of Christ - which is us? Faith lived out is not about you and Jesus, but about you and Jesus and everyone else.

 

[Viki59]

mark a:

Quite a few Catholics seem to wonder about the lack of brotherhood, lack of community feeling, or lack of whatever we feel in our own churches as compared to Protestant churches

I belonged to Protestant churches for 17 years, during the time I was a single mother. I wanted and needed fellowship, as I was raising children alone and had no family nearby, and at times was able to find it. I volunteered for years in child care, went to every potluck, etc. Women’s Bible study groups were helpful. But I would say that the warmth felt in protestant churches only extends to the front door for the most part. I asked for help raising my sons, and got criticism. I asked for someone to take an interest in them, give them a good male example, and ended up with several people who apologized later for being to busy to keep their committments.
Protestants, like anyone, mean well, but I prefer the Catholic church. The few friends I have through the church are solid, with the same values I have. And there is not an implied fellowship that fails to deliver.

 

[carol_marie]

otm:

while there are a number of activities which are mostly social in nature, or at least not directly religious in nature in some of our Protestant churches (and those with the greates number of activities seem to be the mega-churches), I would walk softly when saying that the activities are ME oriented; there are many Protestants in Bible studies and faith sharing groups because they, too, want Jesus.

And while you may want Church to be only about Him, may I remind you that all about Him includes the Body of Christ - which is us? Faith lived out is not about you and Jesus, but about you and Jesus and everyone else.

So not my experience. In the Protestant churches I’ve gone to it was ALWAYS about the programs, the “cool worship music,” the fun youth group… IMO Jesus was said to be the focus, but when people found out about a newer, bigger, offering more programs up the road sort of church - they left for it in droves. Why do Protestants church hop so much? Is it the lack of “Jesus?” Nope. It’s because “MY needs aren’t being met.” or “I’m not being fed.” And off they go… to the next church… and if you ask them about their “new church home” they’ll say… "Oh the teaching is good & they have wonderful programs for the kids & a great youth group & a wonderful worship team etc. etc. And that will hold them for awhile… until they hear about a BETTER church… and then off they go again.

 

[Arlene]

I wonder if that is why it is so hard to keep our young people in the Catholic Church? All their friends are going to AWANA every Wednesday night saying how much fun they had and inviting them to go too. There are youth groups, mission trips, and family nights. My kids want to know why can’t they go to AWANA too. They see all their friends’ families congregating with the other families, all doing things as a group. And what do we have to offer them? CCD.

In our church, we have a huge spread out parish, with the main church and 3 mission churches. Each of the 4 churches has their own CCD, and even within each church, there is an afternoon CCD and an evening CCD. Obviously, each church has its own Mass schedule. Our kids don’t even know each other. There are kids my daughter has known from other functions for years without knowing they were Catholic.

My daughter begs me to allow her to go to AWANA. She tells me that everyone says it is so much fun. I tell her they have the fun, we have the Truth. But it is a hard pill to swallow for a kid.
This January I tried to put together a Family Fun Night once a month for all the kids of the parish to come together and hang out and have fun and have a chance to connect with each other. Every mom I talked to about it thought it was a fabulous idea. But no one came. No one wanted to take an extra night out of their busy lives.

It makes me wonder, why is it the the Protestants can draw people and make people want to make the church functions part of their lives, and why are Catholics not wanting to do anything but weekly Mass (if that).

I would love it if my girls could know who the other Catholic kids are, have some type of bond with them, or at least some familiarity, so that they could feel some type of connection, and not feel so alone in a nonCatholic/somewhat anti_Catholic town.

 

[Black_Jaque]

Maybe that’s where Catholics have Protestants beat in terms of being open and ecumenical.

If a Catholic is in want of socializing they simply go to the roller skating rink and mingles with whoever may be there.

Whereas it seems that if the Protestant wishes to go socialize at the roller skating rink they lease the entire place especially for members of their church.

To a Catholic, social life is all around you. Be leavening in the world. Pray feverishly on your own, then go to work and be a positive influence in the breakroom.

This is probably just an American thing. In many other parts of the world whole countries are predominantly Catholic. Therefore if the city puts on a festival in the park - you really might not distinguish it from a festival put on by the church.

 

[Brenda_V]

Black Jaque:

Maybe that’s where Catholics have Protestants beat in terms of being open and ecumenical.

If a Catholic is in want of socializing they simply go to the roller skating rink and mingles with whoever may be there.

Whereas it seems that if the Protestant wishes to go socialize at the roller skating rink they lease the entire place especially for members of their church.

To a Catholic, social life is all around you. Be leavening in the world. Pray feverishly on your own, then go to work and be a positive influence in the breakroom.

I do agree with this. I know this is what I was taught growing up, we are in the world but not of the world. This means that we socialize outside the Church but we should go to Church to get “fed” and by “fed” I mean the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.

Some advise to those whose children want to go to AWANAs, you need to let them know that it is one of the proselitizing tools that the Protestant Churces uses - gee, it is fun here so maybe I belong here! I also know that this is true of Vacation Bible School, my husband is Lutheran and I was present at a couple of the meetings organizing his churches VBS and that was one of the things that was discussed - the how do we keep it really fun and pull the parents into our church?

Brenda V.

 

[TarAshly]

I dont have any children yet. ( praying hard for them though )

i find my church to be a second family and somewhat my CCE kids to be my practice children. I am in the Legion of Mary also and find so much comfort and family in those ladies. my husband is a Knight and they are like his brothers. Church is a home away from home for us and our parishoners, Knights,CCE family and Legionary sisters are our second family.

I dont think of it as being a void because our family is to small, its an amazing group of people who love and support and worship and work together to better each other, our Church our community and our lives.

 

[kage_ar]

Arlene:

But no one came. No one wanted to take an extra night out of their busy lives.

It makes me wonder, why is it the the Protestants can draw people and make people want to make the church functions part of their lives, and why are Catholics not wanting to do anything but weekly Mass (if that).

You echo what we discussed at our CCD instructors dinner (where only the Priest, the DRE, the Youth Minister and 2 RE teachers showed up). I have no answers, but, wonder why every Baptist church has a packed parking lot for Wed AWANA and no one will show up for a parish mid week event…

I do think that is part of what makes Catholic young people so ripe for the picking by the Evangelicals…

 

[Giannawannabe]

I hope I can express myself clearly on this. I have often thought that the reason for Catholic apparent “non-community” type feeling is that in the average parish, most Catholics are all over the map in terms of what they believe. Some people have no clue that Jesus is truly present in the Tabernacle. There is simply no understanding of WHY they attend Mass. The vast majority of Catholics in the average parish do not understand their Faith at all. I was one of the CINO (Catholic in name only) types once. Now, I am a more faithful Catholic and understand why I go to Mass. With this diversity, it’s difficult to find a common ground of unity and a “community spirit”. It seems half the congregation is angry with the Pastor because he’s not “traditional” or “orthodox” enough and the other half think that the Church is disciminating against women and gays. Even in most CCD programs, the teachers (who are normally parents), have no clue about The Real Presence or basic tenets of Catholic Faith. Those that do, are usually seen as “old fashioned” or “on the fringe”.

All of the above tends to create an environment of disunity and disharmony. Not conducive to a “lovin’ feelin’” IMHO.

 

[gardenswithkids]

mark a:

Quite a few Catholics seem to wonder about the lack of brotherhood, lack of community feeling, or lack of whatever we feel in our own churches as compared to Protestant churches.

Are we looking to the Church for a substitute family because we are keeping our own families too small?

Americans not only keeping our families small, we frequently live nowhere near extended family while neighbors come and go in rapid succession.
I attend an old parish now in a small town where some other parish families have great-great-grandparents buried in the church graveyard. Those families seem very connected to the church, and will probably be there until Christ comes again at the Ressurection.

I used to live in an area where people moved all the time. The Protestant churches had specific marketing strategies to create that sense of community. The Catholic parish there was so large I could meet wonderful people, work with them on programs and then not see them for months at a time dispite attending the same Mass every Sunday. Quite a contrast from the Protestant church that specifically assigned people to make us feel welcome.

I don’t think people are looking for a substitute family. I think we hope to find the family of God promised at our baptism. Our culture values it’s independence, it’s ability to move anywhere and it’s reproductive choices, but it lacks the real freedom found as a child of God. While I don’t have distant relatives in the pew next to me, the stained glass windows remind me of those that have gone before me to Our Father’s home. My own pew is filled with children God created in my womb, many who wouldn’t exist without the Catholic Church’s beautiful teachings on family. The Catholic church doesn’t just give me a feeling of family; it’s given me the real thing.

 

[otm]

Giannawannabe:

I hope I can express myself clearly on this. I have often thought that the reason for Catholic apparent “non-community” type feeling is that in the average parish, most Catholics are all over the map in terms of what they believe. Some people have no clue that Jesus is truly present in the Tabernacle. There is simply no understanding of WHY they attend Mass. The vast majority of Catholics in the average parish do not understand their Faith at all. I was one of the CINO (Catholic in name only) types once. Now, I am a more faithful Catholic and understand why I go to Mass. With this diversity, it’s difficult to find a common ground of unity and a “community spirit”. It seems half the congregation is angry with the Pastor because he’s not “traditional” or “orthodox” enough and the other half think that the Church is disciminating against women and gays. Even in most CCD programs, the teachers (who are normally parents), have no clue about The Real Presence or basic tenets of Catholic Faith. Those that do, are usually seen as “old fashioned” or “on the fringe”.

All of the above tends to create an environment of disunity and disharmony. Not conducive to a “lovin’ feelin’” IMHO.

While it may seem to be a recent problem, keep in mind several things.

People before Vatican 2 were well catchised, generally up to an 8th grade level, with fall off in the number who were catechised beyond the 8th grade through high school. While the Baltimore Catechism was very good at grounding children in the Faith, adults did not persue religious education in any great numbers. Bible studies were almost unheard of, not because the Church forbade them (although in many quarters they were discouraged), but largley because there simply wasn’t anyone doing them.

Among adults, there were many who had a very mechanistic and minimalistic approach to the Church and the Sacraments; the question of how much Mass you had to attend to fulfill your obligation was not a post-Vatican 2 question. Most religious education was carried on by priests or nuns; it was rare to have a lay person teaching the Faith.

In areas that had a clearly defined local community (in many areas, ethnicly defined), people knew each other outside of Mass; but as those communities relocated, more and more Catholics came to church for thier obligatory Sacraments and departed.

In other words, in many ways your description would also be applicable, in many ways, to the fparish of 50 or 60 years ago. It has been a long standing problem.