"Thatcher: A Very British Revolution" on the BBC

[Londoner]

BBC Two - Thatcher: A Very British Revolution

The irresistible rise and dramatic downfall of Margaret Thatcher.

www.bbc.co.uk

This excellent series was shown recently on the BBC. I thought it gave a very even-handed treatment of Mrs Thatcher’s tenure as leader of the Conservative Party and prime minister as well as some insights into her personal life. The whole series is made up of a combination of archive film and reflections by former Cabinet colleagues, senior civil servants, staff, and an occasional opposition politician. There were memorable contributions from the likes of Ken Clarke, Chris Patten, Michael Heseltine, Norman Tebbit, Nigel Lawson, Kenneth Baker, John Nott, Grey Gowrie, Bernard Ingham, and Tim Lankester. There’s no narrator telling us what happened.

I’m old enough to remember when Mrs Thatcher was prime minister and to remember how much a lot of people disliked her. She remains a controversial and polarising figure in Britain even today. However, I found it impossible not to feel a certain amount of admiration and sympathy for her. I was also surprised to discover that she could be quite humorous at times.

Did anyone else see it? Anyone else planning on watching it?

 

[catholic03]

She was amazing. An absolute inspiration to Britain.

God Bless Margaret Thatcher.

Lord, I pray that Lady Thatcher will soon be entered into your kingdom. Though Christ Our Lord.

 

[Londoner]

@catholic03 @(name removed by moderator) See, I said that she was polarising! I have to admit that she was never my kind of Tory. I’ve always been more of a fan of some of those mentioned above, e.g. Chris Patten, Ken Clarke, and Michael Heseltine, and more recently Dominic Grieve and even John Major. I also liked Ted Heath, although I remember him as a backbencher, not from when he was in office. I never liked William Hague’s politics, but, Robin Cook’s resignation speech aside, he was just about the finest House of Commons orator I can remember from my lifetime.

What I did admire about Mrs Thatcher was her intelligence, her vision, and her ability to get things done. That’s not to say that I always agreed with what she was trying to do, but on any view she was a skilful politician, even at times a stateswoman, not something that one could say about David Cameron, Theresa May, and Boris Johnson. She also delivered victory in the Falklands and helped to bring about an end to the Cold War. Together with Tony Blair, Margaret Thatcher is the only British prime minister I can think of from my own lifetime who was respected on the world stage.

Of course, it is largely in the field of domestic policy that she remains controversial. There are many people in Britain today who believe with some justification that Mrs Thatcher was responsible for destroying their industries and communities. Again, I think that there is also some truth in the assertion, which is made several times in the documentary series, that she neither understood nor cared about people who were less able to provide for themselves and their families.

 

[tomarin]

Whatever happened to Chris Patten? Wasn’t he supposed to be destined for great things?

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

I was never a fan of Margaret Thatcher. I won’t be watching.

 

[Rob2]

I watched the programmes .

I didn’t learn anything new .

I don’t like the Tories , but I was pleased when the Conservatives gave Mrs Thatcher the boot .

 

[catholic03]

That’s fine but I suppose that even if I did support Labour I would vote Conservative because there are many such as Mr Rees-Mogg who support the social teaching of the Church.

Here in NZ we have the Labour Party and the National Party (very very similar to the tories). I would always vote National because they better represent Church teaching and many Catholic politicians are National Party MPs.

 

[Rob2]

I would vote Conservative because there are many such as Mr Rees-Mogg who support the social teaching of the Church.

Now that Mr Rees-Mogg is a government minister which part of the Church’s social teaching is he getting the government to implement ?

Or perhaps he is now too comfortable in his supine position to do anything at all .

Rees-Mogg in Parliament yesterday

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[Londoner]

You’re right. He did achieve great things, but sadly accepting the position of governor of Hong Kong rather did for his domestic political career. He went on to be a European commissioner, member of the House of Lords, chairman of the BBC Trust, and chancellor of Oxford University among a number of other important appointments. He is often considered one of the best prime ministers we didn’t have. It’s a shame that we don’t have somebody like him as prime minister now. He would be a unifying figure, unlike Boris Johnson and equally unlike Jeremy Corbyn.

 

[tomarin]

Perhaps he could make the shortlist of potential caretaker PM’s since everyone considers Corbyn unacceptable.

 

[Londoner]

Sadly, not really, because he is a member of the House of Lords and the last prime minister to be a member of the House of Lords retired in 1902 and even in these strange times it seems unlikely that we could have another prime minister in the House of Lords. Ken Clarke would be my best bet for a decent unifying figure.

 

[Londoner]

That could actually be an advantage. At his age he would only want the job for the short term and presumably has no particular personal ambition. Give the job to a spring chicken like Dominic Grieve and he may actually end up being prime minister for years and pursuing his own policy agenda. Also, Ken is doing pretty well for 79.

 

[LilyM]

@catholic03 @(name removed by moderator) See, I said that she was polarising! I have to admit that she was never my kind of Tory. I’ve always been more of a fan of some of those mentioned above, e.g. Chris Patten, Ken Clarke, and Michael Heseltine, and more recently Dominic Grieve and even John Major. I also liked Ted Heath, although I remember him as a backbencher, not from when he was in office. I never liked William Hague’s politics, but, Robin Cook’s resignation speech aside, he was just about the finest House of Commons orator I can remember from my lifetime.

What I did admire about Mrs Thatcher was her intelligence, her vision, and her ability to get things done. That’s not to say that I always agreed with what she was trying to do, but on any view she was a skilful politician, even at times a stateswoman, not something that one could say about David Cameron, Theresa May, and Boris Johnson. She also delivered victory in the Falklands and helped to bring about an end to the Cold War. Together with Tony Blair, Margaret Thatcher is the only British prime minister I can think of from my own lifetime who was respected on the world stage.

Of course, it is largely in the field of domestic policy that she remains controversial. There are many people in Britain today who believe with some justification that Mrs Thatcher was responsible for destroying their industries and communities. Again, I think that there is also some truth in the assertion, which is made several times in the documentary series, that she neither understood nor cared about people who were less able to provide for themselves and their families.

I have only observed her from a distance being Australian, but I remember an Aussie.journalist interviewing her. He stated, uncontroversially, something to.the effect that some people were very critical of.her, and she became irate and started demanding he name them.

The woman would only have needed to leaf through a few of the UK daily newspapers to see that she was being criticised and by who.

Came across as very thin-skinned, arrogant and out of touch.

 

[Londoner]

Yes, that was the famous interview with George Negus. I think she suffered from a number of problems.

First, as she said in the interview, her background was as a chemist and then a barrister. Now, a lot of politicians start out as lawyers, but mostly they learn that conducting oneself like a lawyer in interviews doesn’t play well with the public. Mrs Thatcher seemingly never learned that. Tony Blair, for example, was also a barrister before entering Parliament, but he was less adversarial in interviews. To mention Ken Clarke again, he was a distinguished barrister and became a QC and eventually served briefly as lord chancellor, but he has always had an easygoing manner, not confrontational like Mrs Thatcher was.

Secondly, Mrs Thatcher tended to surround herself with people who were like herself and who reinforced her own view of herself. I’m not saying that it was quite like Catherine the Great or Stalin, but I think she was surprised to discover just how unpopular she was, not just among the public, but with her own Cabinet colleagues. Again, Tony Blair would have been under no illusions as to just how unpopular he was by the end of his premiership. It’s been said that the reason he likes travelling abroad so much is because it gives him an opportunity to meet people who actually like him still.

Finally, you have to remember that Mrs Thatcher was in the unusual position of being a woman who was prime minister and of having become leader of the Conservative Party from a background of being the daughter of a shopkeeper. This possibly sounds ridiculous to an Australian, but remember that apart from Edward Heath, her predecessors had been educated at Eton, Harrow, and Rugby. Heath’s predecessor had disclaimed an earldom to become prime minister. Mrs Thatcher herself had hereditary peers serving under her. It’s sadly not true that Alan Clark said that the trouble with Michael Heseltine was that he’d had to buy his own furniture, but the fact that everyone believes it to be true says a lot about the Conservative Party at the time. As we saw with David Cameron and now with Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg, aristocratic lineage and public school education confer a sense of entitlement and invincibility. They have no need to be liked or to have approval.

 

[tomarin]

I never observed her close up or in a day to day fashion and I wouldn’t have agreed with her politics at the time, but she still struck me as being a very tough and uncompromising person with the proverbial nerves of steel.

 

[1cthlctrth]

I’ve always viewed Margaret Thatcher as one of the greats. Because she was so successful, I think it’s a stretch to refer to her “downfall.” Nobody rules forever, and the world needs more leaders like her.

 

[LilyM]

Yes, that was the famous interview with George Negus. I think she suffered from a number of problems.

First, as she said in the interview, her background was as a chemist and then a barrister. Now, a lot of politicians start out as lawyers, but mostly they learn that conducting oneself like a lawyer in interviews doesn’t play well with the public. Mrs Thatcher seemingly never learned that. Tony Blair, for example, was also a barrister before entering Parliament, but he was less adversarial in interviews. To mention Ken Clarke again, he was a distinguished barrister and became a QC and eventually served briefly as lord chancellor, but he has always had an easygoing manner, not confrontational like Mrs Thatcher was.

Secondly, Mrs Thatcher tended to surround herself with people who were like herself and who reinforced her own view of herself. I’m not saying that it was quite like Catherine the Great or Stalin, but I think she was surprised to discover just how unpopular she was, not just among the public, but with her own Cabinet colleagues. Again, Tony Blair would have been under no illusions as to just how unpopular he was by the end of his premiership. It’s been said that the reason he likes travelling abroad so much is because it gives him an opportunity to meet people who actually like him still.

Finally, you have to remember that Mrs Thatcher was in the unusual position of being a woman who was prime minister and of having become leader of the Conservative Party from a background of being the daughter of a shopkeeper. This possibly sounds ridiculous to an Australian, but remember that apart from Edward Heath, her predecessors had been educated at Eton, Harrow, and Rugby. Heath’s predecessor had disclaimed an earldom to become prime minister. Mrs Thatcher herself had hereditary peers serving under her. It’s sadly not true that Alan Clark said that the trouble with Michael Heseltine was that he’d had to buy his own furniture, but the fact that everyone believes it to be true says a lot about the Conservative Party at the time. As we saw with David Cameron and now with Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg, aristocratic lineage and public school education confer a sense of entitlement and invincibility. They have no need to be liked or to have approval.

It doesn’t sound ridiculous at all. Although we don’t have a hereditary aristocracy per se, many of our Prime Ministers (especially on the conservative side) also tend to come from the rich elites. They just try harder to hide it, with the occasional exception such as Malcolm Turnbull who made no bones about being a rich successful merchant banker and lawyer before going into politics.

 

[Londoner]

Because she was so successful, I think it’s a stretch to refer to her “downfall.”

She certainly was successful in terms of winning elections and delivering on radical policies in government. Whatever one thinks of her policies, it would be hard to deny that she implemented them quite successfully. However, even the most successful politicians can suffer a downfall. Indeed, you could say that the more successful a politician, the greater the downfall that he or she is likely to suffer. You could, for example, speak of Tony Blair suffering a “downfall”. In Mrs Thatcher’s case, she was forced from office in a fairly undignified manner by her closest colleagues. I would say that that was quite a downfall.

She certainly succeeded in making Ian Paisley very unhappy:

I can only liken Mrs Thatcher to Jezebel, who sought to destroy Israel in a day of grave national crisis.

We hand this woman, Margaret Thatcher, over to the Devil that she might learn not to blaspheme. And, O God, in wrath, take vengeance upon this wicked, treacherous, lying woman. Take vengeance upon her, O Lord.

 

[LilyM]

1cthlctrth:

Because she was so successful, I think it’s a stretch to refer to her “downfall.”

She certainly was successful in terms of winning elections and delivering on radical policies in government. Whatever one thinks of her policies, it would be hard to deny that she implemented them quite successfully. However, even the most successful politicians can suffer a downfall. Indeed, you could say that the more successful a politician, the greater the downfall that he or she is likely to suffer. You could, for example, speak of Tony Blair suffering a “downfall”. In Mrs Thatcher’s case, she was forced from office in a fairly undignified manner by her closest colleagues. I would say that that was quite a downfall.

She certainly succeeded in making Ian Paisley very unhappy:

I can only liken Mrs Thatcher to Jezebel, who sought to destroy Israel in a day of grave national crisis.

We hand this woman, Margaret Thatcher, over to the Devil that she might learn not to blaspheme. And, O God, in wrath, take vengeance upon this wicked, treacherous, lying woman. Take vengeance upon her, O Lord.

Depends on whether you call the loss of uncountable numbers of jobs and the virtual annihilation of some industries “successful”. In terms of bottom line, perhaps. In terms of human cost, no way.