The Abomination of Desolation

[toppro77]

**The Prophecy of the Abomination of Desolation

**
**
**

There are two Abomination of Desolations spoken of in the Bible. One In the Machabees and another in Daniel. The abomination of desolation in the Machabees took place about 165 B.C. There is still another that is to take place near the end of time as told of by Daniel the prophet. Once we get an idea of what the abomination was like during the time of the Machabees we can get a better understanding of what to look for concerning the second abomination of desolation.

In I Machabees Chapter 1 verse 57 it says that “King Antiochus set up the abominable idol of desolationupon the altar of God, and **they built altars **throughout all the cities of Juda round about.” Starting in 1969 after the promulgation of the New Mass by Pope Paul VI, new altars were being erected in Catholic churches throughout the world, in the form of a table. In that same chapter in verse 62 it says “**The altar of the idol that was over against the altar of God.” **It is interesting to note that these new altars that were being erected, were not in the same place as the old marble altars, but were placed as it were, “over against” the main altar in that it took precedence over the main altars in the churches, and was now to be used for the sacrifice, just like in the Machabees.

In chapter 1 verse 23 it says “And he proudly entered into the sanctuary, and took away the golden altar, and the candlestick of light, and all the vessels thereof, and the table of proposition, and the pouring vessels, and the vials, and the little mortars of gold, and the veil, and the crowns, and the golden ornament that was before the temple: **and he broke them all in pieces. **

As most who are old enough have noticed since Vatican II, many Catholic churches no longer have the old altars in the sanctuary. Many churches have been renovated and in the process the beautiful old marble altars were destroyed, being** “broken into pieces“**, so that all that now remains is the new altar table that has been set up. No longer is there a tabernacle in the sanctuary in many churches, which were covered with a veil. Gone is the **sanctuary lamp **that alerted us to the presence of Our Lord in the tabernacle. Now man is the center of attention in the sanctuary and not God. Almost all the statues have been removed from not only the sanctuary, but also the entire church, in many instances.
In II Machabees it goes a little more into detail about what went on during the profanation of the Jewish temples and the sanctuaries, which are a prefiguring of the Catholic Church and her sanctuaries. In chapter 6 verse 4 it states “For the temple was full of **the riot and revellings **of the Gentiles: and of men lying with lewd women.”

On this last statement we have an example that took place in 2002 at St. Patrick’s Cathedral.

From the New York Daily News: "A man and woman having sex in a vestibule at St. Patrick’s Cathedral - a sleazy prank broadcast live on the shock jock Opie and Anthony radio show - were arrested yesterday after an usher spotted them, police said. . . . The sexual high jinks at the city’s most well-known sacred site came on the Feast of the Assumption, one of the Catholic Church’s holy days of obligation."Posted on Fri, Aug 16, 2002 at 10:17 PM

This is only one example of the desecration and abomination that has taken place in Catholic Churches in the last few decades but the fact that it has happened should make us take notice, because it parallels the Machabees once again.

To be cont…

 

[toppro77]

Continuing with chapter 6:

And **women thrust themselves **of their accord into the holy places, and brought in things that were not lawful. 5 The altar also was filled with unlawful things, which were forbidden by the laws. 6 And neither were the Sabbaths kept, nor the solemn days of the fathers observed, neither did any man plainly profess himself to be a Jew.”

If we compare some of these statements with the current era we can see similarities. It says that women thrust themselves into the holy places. As many of us that are old enough may remember that prior to 1969 women were never allowed in the sanctuary during mass. Now we have women serving at mass as altar servers, women passing out communion, and women doing readings that only the priest used to do prior to 1969.

****Verse 5 says that the altar was filled with unlawful things which were forbidden by the laws. If one would examine canon law he would see that such things as clown masses, plays on the altar, and the such, are strictly forbidden by canon law. I should say were forbidden because those that have allowed such changes in the mass, now allow such abominations.

Verse 6 has another interesting parallel. It talks about the Sabbath not being kept nor solemn days of the fathers observed. One of the earlier changes made in the 70’s was allowing Catholics to attend mass on a Saturday instead of Sunday to fulfill their Sunday obligation, which is a violation of the Third Commandment of God to remember to keep holy the Sabbath day; which is now Sunday, not Saturday as in the Jewish religion. Once this was done, it was easy to get the Holy Days of Obligation moved to Sunday so that Catholics would no longer have to **observe the solemn days of the fathers **as the Machabees says. Where else could one ever hear of Ascension Thursday being a Sunday but in the Novus Ordo rite of 1969?
One last thing in verse 6 which bears mentioning is that is says that “**neither did any man plainly profess himself to be a Jew.” **It is very interesting that now many Catholics are calling themselves Christians as though they are ashamed of being called a Catholic. The Pope in many of his encyclicals refer to us as being Christians and not Catholics also.

Now I know that we all understand that Catholics are Christians, and Catholics are the only ones who can rightly call themselves Christians because the Catholic Church is the only one who professes to teach all that Christ taught; but with every other denomination claiming to be part the one true church, calling ourselves Christians, puts us on a level with them as though we are all part of the one true church which is not so. Only Catholics are members of the one true Church.

The Machabees says that the Jews did not **plainly **profess themselves to be a Jew. The same thing is said about a Catholic who calls himself a Christian. He is not plainly professing himself to be a Catholic.

To be cont…

 

[toppro77]

**The Prophecy of Daniel

**Now we will examine the prophecy of Daniel and see what it has to say about the abomination of desolation.

In Daniel chapter 8, verse 13; Daniel questions the angel about the abomination. “How long shall be the vision, concerning the continual sacrifice, and the sin of the desolation that is made: and the sanctuary, and the strength be trodden under foot?…17 **Understand, O son of man, for in the time of the end the vision shall be fulfilled.”

**The angel makes it clear that this will take place during the end times. This prophecy is clearly speaking of the sacrifice of the mass, because nothing else can be considered the continual sacrifice but the mass. It is also interesting that in verse 17 is says “and the strength be trodden under foot” This could be said to be a reference to the Holy Eucharist which is strength for our souls and how it has been desecrated in recent times, being “trodden under foot” from hosts dropping from the hands of people at mass and other large gatherings such as World Youth Day, (thanks to communion in the hand) and walked upon by those attending.

Many have related stories of seeing hosts lying on the floors of their churches and in other areas. So many desecrations have taken place since communion in the hand was instituted in the 1977, and no church official has done anything about it; not even the Pope, who routinely gives communion in the hand. It should sicken any Catholic who truly loves Our Lord to know that His Sacred Body and Blood are treated so shamefully. Again anyone old enough would know that no one but the priest touched the Host with his hands, prior to 1969.
The Infallible Dogmatic Council of Trent stated in can.xi “Now, as **it was always the custom **in the Church of God that laymen should receive the communion from priests; but that priests when celebrating should communicate themselves; which custom, as coming down from the Apostolic tradition, ought to be retained.” 1

In the 9th chapter of Daniel verse 27 it again says “and the desolation shall continue even to the consummation, and to the end.”

Chapter 11 talks about the sanctuary being defiled and that they will take away the true mass and put in its place a mockery of the true sacrifice; an abomination in the eyes of God and a sacrifice that is void or desolate, having no efficacy. It states “And they shall defile the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the continual sacrifice, and they shall place there the abomination unto desolation.

32 And such as deal wickedly against the covenant shall deceitfully dissemble: but the people that know their God shall prevail and succeed. 33 And they that are learned among the people shall teach many: and they shall fall by the sword, and by fire, and by captivity, and by spoil for many days.

Our Lord also warned us that this would come to pass. In St. Mathew’s Gospel chapter 24 verse 15 it says “When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that reads let him understand.”
And again in St. Mark’s Gospel verse 14 “And when you shall see the abomination of desolation, standing where it ought not: he that reads let him understand.”

As anyone can see, the similarities in the abomination spoken of in the Machabees have a great deal in common with what’s happening today in the Church. Perhaps we all should head Our Lord’s words, when He said “He that reads let him understand.”

1. Dogmatic Canons and Decrees pg 79, from Tan publishing, Rockford IL

 

[MarkAnthonyCozy]

I have been hearing that Pope Benedict XVI intends to reform our liturgy. Some of what Toppro77 points out is due to the fact that we Catholic laymen have shrunk back from our duties.

After coming to Mass on Palm Sunday, and hearing the Passion being read by our priest and two women, I told my fellow CCD teacher that this will be the last time a woman recites the lines of the apostles in our parish!

Though I do not necessarily agree with all Toppro77’s assumptions on this matter, I greatly appreciate his observations and will take this to prayer.

We must lift up our prayers to God that he lead Pope Benedict XVI to build our Church into a sacrament of unity, love and peace for all the world.

The first step is purification and it’s gonna hurt. But it’s the only way.

 

[jphod]

I have to re-read this post more carefully but if its intent is to somehow equate the present mass with the Abomination of Desolation one needs to show some discretion as that for a Catholic may approach if not already reach the esteemed level of heresy. Perhaps I misunderstand.

 

[MarkAnthonyCozy]

jphod:

I have to re-read this post more carefully but if its intent is to somehow equate the present mass with the Abomination of Desolation one needs to show some discretion as that for a Catholic may approach if not already reach the esteemed level of heresy. Perhaps I misunderstand.

I took this post as pointing out liturgical abuses that have emerged over the past 30 years. There have been some books published as of late that identify some of these that border on heresy.

James Akin’s book “Mass Confusion, The Do’s and Don’ts of Catholic Worship” shows that there is truly a crisis in today’s Catholic Liturgy.

Pope Benedict XVI has also written a book, “The Spirit of the Liturgy,” a must read for anyone who desires a deeper spiritual awareness of what the Mass means for Catholics and also the world. This book, in showing how things should be, indirectly exposes what shouldn’t be.

It is the duty of every Catholic to support our local priests to maintain orthodoxy in the Liturgy of the Mass.

It is also our duty to report liturgical abuses by priests to our bishop.

 

[jphod]

My concern, and apparently, my misinterpretation was that the intent of the post was to imply that the present non-tridentine mass was in someway by itself the “abomination of Desolation” … and not only abuses of the liturgy.
It seemed that the poster had a significant concern about communion in the hand, which is not a liturgical abuse, and it was that type of tendency which made me think( as I only skimmed the article due to time constraints) that it was looking upon things that are lawful in the church as in some way being "evil’ or an abomination.
Now I will actually read the post in detail and then comment, like any intelligent person would have done in the first place.

 

[twaglernicetry]

Why must you (the admin) silence speakers of the truth? Are you scared?

 

[Church_Militant]

twaglernicetry:

Why must you (the admin) silence speakers of the truth? Are you scared?

For profanity in your posts on the Seventh Day Adventist thread and discussing Mods actions on the open forums. Not cool;.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

The Prophecy of the Abomination of Desolation

There are two Abomination of Desolations spoken of in the Bible. One In the Machabees and another in Daniel. The abomination of desolation in the Machabees took place about 165 B.C. There is still another that is to take place near the end of time as told of by Daniel the prophet. Once we get an idea of what the abomination was like during the time of the Machabees we can get a better understanding of what to look for concerning the second abomination of desolation.

In I Machabees Chapter 1 verse 57 it says that “King Antiochus set up the abominable idol of desolationupon the altar of God, and **they built altars **throughout all the cities of Juda round about.”

“In Judah” - so how can this text, which is not even a prophecy, in anyway refer to the doings of the CC ? Nothing in the text justifies such an interpretation. The CC is not the land of Judah - so a statement about one, cannot be applied to the other.​

Starting in 1969 after the promulgation of the New Mass by Pope Paul VI, new altars were being erected in Catholic churches throughout the world, in the form of a table. In that same chapter in verse 62 it says “**The altar of the idol that was over against the altar of God.” **It is interesting to note that these new altars that were being erected, were not in the same place as the old marble altars, but were placed as it were, “over against” the main altar in that it took precedence over the main altars in the churches, and was now to be used for the sacrifice, just like in the Machabees.

In chapter 1 verse 23 it says “And he proudly entered into the sanctuary, and took away the golden altar, and the candlestick of light, and all the vessels thereof, and the table of proposition, and the pouring vessels, and the vials, and the little mortars of gold, and the veil, and the crowns, and the golden ornament that was before the temple: and he broke them all in pieces.

The description refers to the Jerusalem Temple.​

Washington is the name of a village in the county of Durham, in the north-east of England. It was from Washington that a certain U.S. president’s ancestors came.

Is Washington in County Durham the seat of the US government ? Using your method, one would have to say, “yes”. You aren’t allowing for differences, but looking only at the common features, apart from historical context. This is how people prove the Pope is Antichrist - they look at the few words which suggest similarities, and ignore all the historical detail which undermines their ideas. ##

As most who are old enough have noticed since Vatican II, many Catholic churches no longer have the old altars in the sanctuary. Many churches have been renovated and in the process the beautiful old marble altars were destroyed, being** “broken into pieces“**, so that all that now remains is the new altar table that has been set up. No longer is there a tabernacle in the sanctuary in many churches, which were covered with a veil. Gone is the **sanctuary lamp **that alerted us to the presence of Our Lord in the tabernacle. Now man is the center of attention in the sanctuary and not God. Almost all the statues have been removed from not only the sanctuary, but also the entire church, in many instances.
In II Machabees it goes a little more into detail about what went on during the profanation of the Jewish temples and the sanctuaries, which are a prefiguring of the Catholic Church and her sanctuaries. In chapter 6 verse 4 it states “For the temple was full of **the riot and revellings **of the Gentiles: and of men lying with lewd women.”

There is no reason to regard the account as prefiguring anything - the text is not a prophecy: it could as well be a prefigure of the Clinton-Lewinsky affair; a little imagination, and it could be “proved” to be exactly that. Or, perhaps, of the goings-on during certain pontificates. Anything is possible, if one ignores the details of what the text actually says & means.​

BTW, prostitutes often used churches as venues for pick-ups in the Later Middle Ages. This was far more common than the solitary reference given below. Is the TLM the “abomination” mentioned - why not ? ##

On this last statement we have an example that took place in 2002 at St. Patrick’s Cathedral.

[continue…]

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

From the New York Daily News: "A man and woman having sex in a vestibule at St. Patrick’s Cathedral - a sleazy prank broadcast live on the shock jock Opie and Anthony radio show - were arrested yesterday after an usher spotted them, police said. . . . The sexual high jinks at the city’s most well-known sacred site came on the Feast of the Assumption, one of the Catholic Church’s holy days of obligation."Posted on Fri, Aug 16, 2002 at 10:17 PM

This is only one example of the desecration and abomination that has taken place in Catholic Churches in the last few decades but the fact that it has happened should make us take notice, because it parallels the Machabees once again.

To be cont…

How many Catholics have been murdered in church by Catholics since the Pauline Reform ?​

How many priests offer the Black Mass ?

These, and the burning of religious buildings by Catholics, were far from unknown in the period before Trent or after - especially before. Trent took decades to be implemented. France suffered very greatly from the Hundred Years’ War - there was no lack of churches and other such buildings to destroy. The less said about the destruction caused to Constantinople by the Fourth Crusade, the better.

The present looks unusually ugly only if one forgets the evils of the past. At least we don’t have bishops who enter their cathedrals only at their Funeral Masses any longer - or bishops aged six, or cardinals aged fourteen, or cardinals who are cardinals only because they come from very important families, regardless of their moral and religious character; or Popes who regard the Papacy merely as a means to enrich themselves or their families.
There is plenty wrong, as there always is - but at least these aren’t among our problems. ##

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

toppro77:

Continuing with chapter 6:

And **women thrust themselves **of their accord into the holy places, and brought in things that were not lawful. 5 The altar also was filled with unlawful things, which were forbidden by the laws. 6 And neither were the Sabbaths kept, nor the solemn days of the fathers observed, neither did any man plainly profess himself to be a Jew.”

If we compare some of these statements with the current era we can see similarities. It says that women thrust themselves into the holy places. As many of us that are old enough may remember that prior to 1969 women were never allowed in the sanctuary during mass. Now we have women serving at mass as altar servers, women passing out communion, and women doing readings that only the priest used to do prior to 1969.

****Verse 5 says that the altar was filled with unlawful things which were forbidden by the laws. If one would examine canon law he would see that such things as clown masses, plays on the altar, and the such, are strictly forbidden by canon law. I should say were forbidden because those that have allowed such changes in the mass, now allow such abominations.

These are not required or necessitated or desired by Vatican II or by the Popes who implemented the Council - this no more tells against the rightfulness of the reformed Missal, than the offering of the TLM to satan tells against the TLM.​

It is simply not right to imply that the Council Fathers allowed clown Masses. To condemn something because of the misuse of it, does not take away from its right use - otherwise, virtually nothing in Catholicism would be left standing. ##

Verse 6 has another interesting parallel. It talks about the Sabbath not being kept nor solemn days of the fathers observed. One of the earlier changes made in the 70’s was allowing Catholics to attend mass on a Saturday instead of Sunday to fulfill their Sunday obligation, which is a violation of the Third Commandment of God to remember to keep holy the Sabbath day; which is now Sunday, not Saturday as in the Jewish religion.

IOW, the Church has been “violating” the commandment for a very long time. Why complain of the later change, and not of the earlier also ? Sunday is not the Sabbath - Saturday is.​

Once this was done, it was easy to get the Holy Days of Obligation moved to Sunday so that Catholics would no longer have to **observe the solemn days of the fathers **as the Machabees says. Where else could one ever hear of Ascension Thursday being a Sunday but in the Novus Ordo rite of 1969?
One last thing in verse 6 which bears mentioning is that is says that “**neither did any man plainly profess himself to be a Jew.” **It is very interesting that now many Catholics are calling themselves Christians as though they are ashamed of being called a Catholic. The Pope in many of his encyclicals refer to us as being Christians and not Catholics also.

Now I know that we all understand that Catholics are Christians, and Catholics are the only ones who can rightly call themselves Christians because the Catholic Church is the only one who professes to teach all that Christ taught; but with every other denomination claiming to be part the one true church, calling ourselves Christians, puts us on a level with them as though we are all part of the one true church which is not so. Only Catholics are members of the one true Church.

The Machabees says that the Jews did not **plainly **profess themselves to be a Jew. The same thing is said about a Catholic who calls himself a Christian. He is not plainly professing himself to be a Catholic.

To be cont…

The name of “Christian” is earlier, and Biblical too - so it is more traditional than the other. I thought the critics of the Pauline reforms were fond of tradition.​

A title of Jesus is better than a title of the Church. ##

 

[m4dc4p]

Thank you, Gottle of Geer, for taking the time to point out the errors in this stuff. It’s barely worth taking the time to read … really, it reminds me of the people wearing tin-foil hats … But it’s nice to see it deflated so eloquently and rationally.