The Agony in the Garden

[johngh]

For some reason the past few times i’ve been to Adoration, I inevitably find myself reading the various gospel readings of the agony in the garden of Gethsemane. I do not know if there is something in me that find it interesting or if perhaps God wants me to get something from it, but it has been the scripture I have thought about the most, by far, in the past month or so.

My question is, what do you all think of this passage? What do you think we are meant to get out of it? Does this passage have any importance to you? And if so, why?

 

[Crumpy]

One of the wonderful things I have discovered about scripture study is the benefit I get from asking questions, just as you have asked.

It’s like my friend used to say, the suspense is driving me crazy, I hope it never ends.

If you persist in study of this scripture with prayer, you may begin to unlock the message of the agony of Christ.

First of all, there is a literary dilemma. If the three apostles were sleeping and Jesus was in agony, then who is the narrator and how did we get this part of the gospel story? Perhaps you have to assume that the apostles discussed everything with Jesus after HIs resurrection, before His ascension.

It’s the same literary dilemma of Genesis Chap One. If humanity was not created until the end of the chapter, then who is the narrator and how do they know what happened back then? Any human observer was not created or otherwise alive to witness what is being told.

Beyond this, we need to look at the Old Testament and see what is wrong with the apostles, for example. The tradition of the Jews was to stay awake that night of the Passover, because at the first Passover the Israelites were escaping from Egypt. So, when Jesus tells them to stay alert and so forth, He is not merely asking for their attention, He is reminding them of the Jewish Traditioin and what it signifies, the Passover – which is an enormously significant event in the Old Testament, and even in the entire modern Bible.

Jesus is in the “garden” which should make us think of the first garden, the garden of Eden. Jesus is the “new Adam” and He is confronting a decision, a choice that Adam and Eve faced in Eden. And, what was that? Well, one answer might involve what Adam and Eve’s sin was. God had made them in His image and likeness, with dominion over all creation, and “tending” the garden.

By submitting to the temptation of the serpent, they had abdicated and betrayed their glory of creation and their royal dominion over nature. The words for tending of the garden are the same Hebrew words used later to describe the actions of the Levitical priests in the Temple. So, Adam and Eve were royalty and priestly. And, they sinned against their calling.

Jesus, on the other hand, is challenged in the same way, to betray His royal and priestly mission, as Messiah. And, Jesus is facing His certain death with as much foreknowledge, presumably, that Adam and Eve had when they knew that if they ate of the tree of the knowldge of good and evil, that they too would surely die. So, there is a parallel in the matter of confronting death.

Of course, Jesus’ death is not the result of His sin, but of ours, and of the very sin of Adam and Eve.

So, the Agony in the Garden, reminds us of God’s entire salvation plan, especially of Jesus’ role to suffer and die.

There are many levels of understanding to the account of the agony, and this may be just one of them. I haven’t even talked about what Jesus said, for example.

 

[Pro_Domina]

It is one of the most beautiful moments of all History…

Our Lord Jesus Christ, God and Man, who created the farthest star and the smallest grain of sand, who saw this moment since all eternity, was so saddened that He, the Eternal Word, said “My soul is sorrowful even unto death”. Mystery, as He being both God and Man, only the Man seemed to be present. Yet His Divinity was present. But it was of no consolation, but rather another way of suffering. For what did His Divine Knowledge show Him if not the infidelities of those He is would give His life for? He saw every soul that would ultimately despise Him and trample upon His Sacrifice. He saw the multitudes from the Adam to the last man, and saw how so many would be sinners and choose to stay like that. But what caused Him most suffering? Oh how many of those predilect sons and daughthers who He would call to serve Him and His Church, but would be other Judases?
Priests, bishops, nuns and even popes, who are even silent, but declared enemies of the Church.

Who can console Him? An angel appears and He is strengthened. How? What does the angel give Him that He did not give him? I believe Bl. Anne Catherine Emmerich speaks of a chalice that was given to Him.

What was it? I was told once that it was the suffering of those who would be faithful, of the Founders who would be faithful to His Grace and give wonderful fruits, fruits that started historic times, St. Benedict, of whom the Middle Ages flourished from and so on.

You ask: And today?

His Blood gave rise to the splendors of Cristian Civilization. It was crushed, but so was He.

And He rose again.

 

[dashso40]

This is one of my favorite passages in the Bible…It shows that even Jesus was afraid of suffering, but He accepts God’s will, He trusts His Father…

 

[James_Least]

There is no literary dilemma–in Gethsemanne or Eden. The Word of God is breathed by God–He makes no errors, nor is He confused. Man continues to make errors–man is depraved by nature. How can we depend on the traditions of man?

Was Jesus agonizing? To be sure! He knew what was about to take place. He knew all of His disciples would forsake Him and flee–for their lives. He knew Peter would deny HIm. He knew He would pay the price for the sins of many–past, present and future. No one else could qualify–He is the sinless Lamb of God–slain from before the foundation of the world.

He paid it all–gave up His life–willingly–for you and for me.

What a Saviour. Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me…

Shalom,

James Least

 

[mnealon1]

I think contemplating the Passion of christ is the best way to get really close to Jesus. Jesus knew what He was facing when He had finished talking to the Father. You can gather so much from it. For me it is not an issue to know who knew what or anything like that. I let my mind set the scene and and faith guide me through it. Perhaps the apostles could not face what they thought was going to happen. ( they had been at the Last Supper and knew Jesus was to betrayed and denied ) The issue for me is the lonliness of Jesus to find them alseep. Twice more He came to them and no words of comfort. I think of the worst times of my life when I would have loved some comfort and there was none, and this was the Son Of God.
So here is a great lesson. When we feel dispair think of Jesus in the Garden. Give our pain to Him.
For 3 hours He prayed to the Father and Satan showed Him what He would suffer in His human nature ( over 7,000 lashes and much more) and the sorrow in His Divinity that He was not believed, and because of that so many souls would be lost.
He broke out in a sweat of blood at the enormity of His forthcoming sufferings and the apostles asked what was wrong and was in time to hear Him say " If it be possible let this chalice pass from me, but not as I will but what you will".
For me again here is a great lesson of surrending to the will of God and giving all our sufferings to Jesus to do with what He wishes.
All this then takes a bigger lesson to heart, when I think of my sins and how much I have offended Jesus who suffered so much mentally in the Garden, ( and I think we all suffer mental angush in our lives at some point and can give that too, to Jesus) and that was only just the beginning.
If you look up the PIETA Prayer Book you will see the revelations of Jesus to Saint Brigid of Sweeden to whom he revealed the enormity of His sufferings, starting with the agony in the Garden.

Oh Blood and Water which gushed forth from the Heart of Jesus as a font of Mercy for us I trust in You.

 

[ElectricMayhem]

There is no literary dilemma–in Gethsemanne or Eden. The Word of God is breathed by God–He makes no errors, nor is He confused. Man continues to make errors–man is depraved by nature. How can we depend on the traditions of man?

Was Jesus agonizing? To be sure! He knew what was about to take place. He knew all of His disciples would forsake Him and flee–for their lives. He knew Peter would deny HIm. He knew He would pay the price for the sins of many–past, present and future. No one else could qualify–He is the sinless Lamb of God–slain from before the foundation of the world.

He paid it all–gave up His life–willingly–for you and for me.

What a Saviour. Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me…

Shalom,

James Least

Tradition of man precedes the NT. Where do you think the stories came from?

btw:
Only Matt and Mark have the 12 fleeing. Matt and Mark both have women at the cross. In Luke women stayed with him till the end in 23: 26-32 and even at the cross “from a distance” were his acquaintences 23: 44-49. In John, we have Mary, Mary the wife of Clopas and Mary Magdelene and the beloved disciple.

In John there is no mention of Gathsemane/Mount of Olives. I wonder why…maybe a literary device?

 

[Joe_Kelley]

. . .

In John there is no mention of Gathsemane/Mount of Olives. I wonder why…maybe a literary device?

John was written much later than the other three Gospels. He skipped over those things he thought were covered adequately by the others.

Note that he skips the Eucharist at the Last Supper, but gives the background for it in Chapter 6. Also, he tells of the Washing of the Feet which the others had omitted.

 

[cheeto1]

It is important to me, because it was that line of His that led me to adoration:
“stay awake with me for an hour”. Like you wondering what Gethsemane should
mean, I wondered what “stay with Me an hour” should mean. I kept “hearing” it.
Then our church announced it would start having adoration on Tuesdays. I knew
that’s where I was meant to go. After going weekly for about 6 months, I knew that
I was being asked to spend that hour daily.

I definately think Gethsemane means something for you, and maybe you haven’t
been told yet what it is. It is a time in your life to “stay awake”, because you will
be told the special meaning for you. Blessings on you…

 

[ElectricMayhem]

John was written much later than the other three Gospels. He skipped over those things he thought were covered adequately by the others.

Note that he skips the Eucharist at the Last Supper, but gives the background for it in Chapter 6. Also, he tells of the Washing of the Feet which the others had omitted.

John wrote just a few years after the synoptics. The community (or redactor) that wrote John didn’t have access to the other three gospels. Almost everything in John is unique to his gospel- signs, chronology, sayings, everything. Only two events are remotely similar…cleansing of the temple (in john it’s at the beginning and VERY different) and the multiplication of loaves. The synoptics did not “omit” washing of the feet no more than john “omitted” the tansfiguration, prodigal son, sermon on the mount, any synoptic parable or miracle, etc.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

John wrote just a few years after the synoptics. The community (or redactor) that wrote John didn’t have access to the other three gospels. Almost everything in John is unique to his gospel- signs, chronology, sayings, everything. Only two events are remotely similar…cleansing of the temple (in john it’s at the beginning and VERY different) and the multiplication of loaves. The synoptics did not “omit” washing of the feet no more than john “omitted” the tansfiguration, prodigal son, sermon on the mount, any synoptic parable or miracle, etc.

Source??

 

[ElectricMayhem]

Source??

My source is every reputable Catholic biblical scholar of the 20th century. Just open up ANY Catholic bible and read the intros to each gospel.

But, if you want a source, read any book by Raymond Brown.

 

[jpy15026]

I find myself reading the various gospel readings of the agony in the garden of Gethsemane.

Snippits from something I read a few months ago

• Christ is simultaneously and perfectly conscious of every human act, internal as well as external, of every human being, past, present, and future. Therefore, from the moment of His conception in Mary’s womb, this all-embracing consciousness conditions His entire public ministry: His recorded words, emotional responses, and internal and external acts.
• From this first Christological premise, we see that in the Gospels, all of Christ’s words and deeds are “conditioned” and “influenced” by the full existential complex of my own needs and my own human personal response. In other words, I am in His mind. He sees me. He addresses me. The Gospels are, indeed, an* historical* record of the past, but in this manner, a connatural encounter is effected here and now. Christ, in His historical agony, for instance, is affected by* me*, both as an individual and as a member of His Body, either toward consolation by my sympathy, my conversion, and my adherence, or toward a sharpening of His agony by my indifference, my sin.
• Gethsemane may well illustrate what is meant. The mental agony of Jesus simultaneously registered in His consciousness the love and hatred, the fidelity and apostasy, the salvation *and *damnation of *every *soul from Adam to the parousia.(which includes me,so now "I am “living” in the Garden)
• The same dimension of awareness enters into *every *word and act of Jesus the Gospels record. I say “act,” because an act is also dramatically and efficiently a “word.” Therefore, my whole existential situation and being share in prompting and formulating each word of Christ in its final Gospel expression. Thus, *I *am actively involved in this “word” that never passes away. I live in and act upon the pages of Scripture. And what we label “I” here embraces every “I” of *every *human soul, created or yet to be created, however *ignored *or *unappreciated *by history that soul may be.
  • Christ transcends time. In the divine hypostasis of Christ, there is no past or future, only an eternal all-comprehensive now*.* If our first premise moves us “backward” toward an engagement with the past, this premise moves those same historical events “forward” to our own moment in time.

I now live in the Garden!
.

 

[James_Least]

Tradition of man precedes the NT. Where do you think the stories came from?

btw:
Only Matt and Mark have the 12 fleeing. Matt and Mark both have women at the cross. In Luke women stayed with him till the end in 23: 26-32 and even at the cross “from a distance” were his acquaintences 23: 44-49. In John, we have Mary, Mary the wife of Clopas and Mary Magdelene and the beloved disciple.

In John there is no mention of Gathsemane/Mount of Olives. I wonder why…maybe a literary device?

To be sure, the traditions of man were manifested when Cain offered an unacceptable sacrifice. Man continues to fall into this snare of Satan. Man is totally depraved. He would not know how to do good even if he could recognize it. Salvation is of the Lord. He calls, saves and keeps by the power of His Spirit through the Word Incarnate. The Spirit, The Holy, keeps the children of God through the Word of Truth–the Scripture.

“Faith comes by hearing, hearing by the Word of God.”–Paul to the NT Churches.
“In vain ye do worship, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”–Jesus to the Jews.

I must be one of those “sola scriptura” people. We predate Luther by about 1600 years.

Read about two streams of scripture–on www.

Selah,

James Least