The attitude to ritual in Protestant churches?

[guanophore]

I appreciate ritual, I see a lot of value in simply the discipline of the practices. I attend a Lutheran church, and frankly I’m concerned about the rock-style services, not because there’s something odd about the music, but I think it’s prone to making the worship service about YOU, rather than God. These are the lyrics to a typical worship song (songlyrics.com/building-429/where-i-belong-lyrics/) – it’s about YOU, not that God isn’t involved, but the first person pronouns occur quite frequently in the song. In my church, the artists would play centerstage, in front of the alter. Now compare that to a traditional service in a traditional Anglican, Lutheran, or Catholic church service in which hymns like this (mljmusic.com/Portals/0/Lyrics/Glory%20and%20Praise%20to%20Our%20God.pdf) are sung, or just as commonly a Psalm, and I think there is a difference. When the worship is for MAN, it’s about us and not God. I think some in contemporary practice tend to be into entertaining the masses rather then worship.

I think you hit a real nail on the heat here, septimine. I think that this transition of musicians and preachers replacing the altar and the shift in focus to human rather than divine is a major factor in megachurches. People go to services to shif their emotions, and to feel better. It works, and they do…but at what cost?

 

[JonNC]

I appreciate ritual, I see a lot of value in simply the discipline of the practices. I attend a Lutheran church, and frankly I’m concerned about the rock-style services, not because there’s something odd about the music, but I think it’s prone to making the worship service about YOU, rather than God. These are the lyrics to a typical worship song (songlyrics.com/building-429/where-i-belong-lyrics/) – it’s about YOU, not that God isn’t involved, but the first person pronouns occur quite frequently in the song. In my church, the artists would play centerstage, in front of the alter. Now compare that to a traditional service in a traditional Anglican, Lutheran, or Catholic church service in which hymns like this (mljmusic.com/Portals/0/Lyrics/Glory%20and%20Praise%20to%20Our%20God.pdf) are sung, or just as commonly a Psalm, and I think there is a difference. When the worship is for MAN, it’s about us and not God. I think some in contemporary practice tend to be into entertaining the masses rather then worship.

I agree septimine.

Since you attend a Lutheran parish, you probably know that the historic Lutheran thought on hymns is that they must be intended to teach doctrine. Short of that, it doesn’t belong in divine worship/mass. And it doesn’t matter if its guitar and drums or pipe organ -it must be doctrinal sound.

Jon

 

[FabiusMaximus]

An example of this would be contraception. Even though up until the 1960s, contraception was considered wrong by Protestants (same as Catholic teaching), it’s now OK, because it’s not specifically forbidden in the Bible.

Another example would be masturbation. Again, historically this practice was considered
“wrong” by evangelical Protestants (same as Catholic teaching), but now it is not considered wrong because it’s not specifically condemned in the Bible.

This is false. Evangelicals do indeed condemn masturbation and all the vices that accompany it. Many also condemn contraception.

Even though there is no human authority in the evangelical Protestant churches, many of the denominational evangelical Protestant churches have a human organization that is appointed by the members of the denomination, and is charged with caring for the flock and maintaining orthodox doctrine (according to that denomination). Evangelical Protestants voluntarily commit to submitting to this authority (which means that they can also break away from that authority). If a teaching is generally accepted among a majority consensus of the pastors and teachers in the denomination, it will become doctrine. There is no “Chair of Peter” or any kind of “Magisterium” that makes decisions. The reason why contraception is now “OK” is because a majority of the pastors and teachers came to believe, based on the Bible, that it’s OK.

You have contradicted yourself. You say that there is no organization that makes decisions but then state that they do. Indeed major Evangelical denominations do in fact debate on whether an issue has been historically approved or condemned within their particular denomination. This is why, for instance, in the early 1900s, Oneness Pentecostals withdrew from the Assemblies of God and founded their own denomination, the United Pentecostal Church. This is also why the Assemblies of God continues to maintain a prohibition on alcohol.

You might not see the overarching organization as the same as the Magisterium, but it is in many cases.