The ban on discussing atheism has long been lifted...

[zyzz]

… thanks to the moderators! /cheers !!!

One would have thought that the freedom to discuss atheism will somehow be beneficial and the truckload of misconceptions about atheism will eventually disappear. No such luck! The same old nonsensical arguments are being paraded every couple of days and weeks.

Atheism is “evil” because there were a few atheist despots who committed horrible atrocities (Stalin, Mao, Pol-Pot). Never mind that those atrocities had NOTHING to do with their atheism - and it have everything to do with their unquenchable thirst for power and domination. To blame atheism - which is a totally neutral philosophical stance - for the actions of few sociopaths is simply ludicrous. Never mind that the most atheistic societies are in Scandinavia and they are the most tolerant with the fewest number of hostile behavior toward believers (practically none).

“If only matter exists, then nothing matters” - some say. What nonsense. As if there would not be ethical behavior without a belief in some gods. As if atheism would somehow lead to lawlessness, to apathy, to nihilism. Never mind that there is absolutely predictive value of knowing if a specific person is a believer or an atheist. You cannot know if Joe Schmoe is a good guy, or a bad one, if the only thing you know about him is that he is an atheist or a Catholic (or a generic Christian), or anything else.

Some posters keep quoting a few words from a handful of atheist thinkers (Sartre, etc…) - as if they would be indicative of the thinking of each and every atheist ever born. They bring up North Korea, as if all the secular countries would be like that. Only the despotic countries - be they atheistic or religious based try to oppress everyone with a different view. But neither atheism nor religion should be blamed for the actions of those handful of psychopaths and sociopaths, who commit those atrocities.

The really sad thing is not those handful of posters, who are not willing to learn. In every randomly selected group you will find their equivalent, the ones who close their eyes and ears and keep on singing: “la, la, I can’t hear you”! The truly sad thing is that the rational believers with not raise their voice and tell them: “shut up, you are disgrace to our community of believers”… now that is very sad. They should be OPENLY shunned, ostracized and ridiculed.

Atheists keep on refuting these unsubstantiated accusations… but to no avail. They will be brought back, day after day… I wonder, who will be the next one who will spout the same nonsense next time…

 

[meltzerboy]

… thanks to the moderators! /cheers !!!

One would have thought that the freedom to discuss atheism will somehow be beneficial and the truckload of misconceptions about atheism will eventually disappear. No such luck! The same old nonsensical arguments are being paraded every couple of days and weeks.

Atheism is “evil” because there were a few atheist despots who committed horrible atrocities (Stalin, Mao, Pol-Pot). Never mind that those atrocities had NOTHING to do with their atheism - and it have everything to do with their unquenchable thirst for power and domination. To blame atheism - which is a totally neutral philosophical stance - for the actions of few sociopaths is simply ludicrous. Never mind that the most atheistic societies are in Scandinavia and they are the most tolerant with the fewest number of hostile behavior toward believers (practically none).

“If only matter exists, then nothing matters” - some say. What nonsense. As if there would not be ethical behavior without a belief in some gods. As if atheism would somehow lead to lawlessness, to apathy, to nihilism. Never mind that there is absolutely predictive value of knowing if a specific person is a believer or an atheist. You cannot know if Joe Schmoe is a good guy, or a bad one, if the only thing you know about him is that he is an atheist or a Catholic (or a generic Christian), or anything else.

Some posters keep quoting a few words from a handful of atheist thinkers (Sartre, etc…) - as if they would be indicative of the thinking of each and every atheist ever born. They bring up North Korea, as if all the secular countries would be like that. Only the despotic countries - be they atheistic or religious based try to oppress everyone with a different view. But neither atheism nor religion should be blamed for the actions of those handful of psychopaths and sociopaths, who commit those atrocities.

The really sad thing is not those handful of posters, who are not willing to learn. In every randomly selected group you will find their equivalent, the ones who close their eyes and ears and keep on singing: “la, la, I can’t hear you”! The truly sad thing is that the rational believers with not raise their voice and tell them: “shut up, you are disgrace to our community of believers”… now that is very sad. They should be OPENLY shunned, ostracized and ridiculed.

Atheists keep on refuting these unsubstantiated accusations… but to no avail. They will be brought back, day after day… I wonder, who will be the next one who will spout the same nonsense next time…

I think that in the minds of some believers, atheists represent the epitome of secular society, which is believed to be actively involved in infringing upon the rights of believers, particularly the Christian majority. IOW, the fear by some believers is that atheists today have become too politicized and organized to the detriment of the moral and religious values held by believers.

 

[JD1789]

I’m sorry you have encountered what you believe are terrible an unworthy arguments. I am confused as to what you are seeking in your post. Do you want to engage with theists in logical discussions about the possibility/impossibility of God?

I have seen some good discussions on here and would also suggest strangenotions.com/ as well as Biahop Robbert Barron’s YouTube videos. I’m sure you have checked out the resources from Catholic Answers as well. You can engage others on strange notions and sometimes on Fr. Barron’s YouTube comments.

This is an Internet forum with amateur apologists. Logically presenting and arguing points is a skill that takes time to develop and mature. There’s no shame in anyone practicing that skill here, including you.

 

[Latias]

Atheism is “evil” because there were a few atheist despots who committed horrible atrocities (Stalin, Mao, Pol-Pot). Never mind that those atrocities had NOTHING to do with their atheism - and it have everything to do with their unquenchable thirst for power and domination. To blame atheism - which is a totally neutral philosophical stance - for the actions of few sociopaths is simply ludicrous. Never mind that the most atheistic societies are in Scandinavia and they are the most tolerant with the fewest number of hostile behavior toward believers (practically none).
:

Stalin did not commit various atrocities. That’s all propaganda, especially the death tolls of tens of millions. I wonder what are the religions of Curtis LeMay and Paul Tibbitts.

Atheists should learn historical truth and not adopt uncritically Cold War myths about Stalin.

If someone brings up North Korea, bring up Portugal’s Estado Novo.

 

[Bonnie]

Hi zyzz -

What you’re describing goes both ways, as humans tend to generalize. For instance, I’m trying to read Michael Shermer’s “The Believing Brain.” But I’m stumbling a bit because he makes the assumption that all Christians believe as he did when he was a Christian. He doesn’t seem to be aware of different Christian beliefs. It’s hard to take him seriously after that.

Another human tendency is to see what is different as evil. Some atheists appear to believe that all Christians are hypocrites and/or child abusers. I don’t bother to correct them, their minds are made up.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Atheists seem to have their minds made up as much as Theists have their minds made up. I’ve found debating the issue to be a waste of time.

 

[FractalFire]

You seriously know an Atheist–more than one, you say–who appears to believe that??

That’s shocking to me. I know probably a thousand Atheists and not one of them think that, no way!

.

Are you kidding?! How could you possibly be an atheist and not meet someone who acts like that? Must we quote them?

1. “Religion is the worst enemy of mankind. No single war in the history of humanity has killed as many people as religion has. Not to mention it set science back a thousand years.” – Bill Murray. [Message: Religion=evil. Religion kills people. Religious people are stupid and hold back science.]
2. “It is time we admitted that faith is nothing more that the license religious people give one another to keep believing when reason fails.” – Rowan Atkinson. [Message: “Faith” is blind belief for no reason.]
3. “What is wrong with inciting intense dislike of a religion if the activities or teachings of that religion are so outrageous, irrational or abuse of human rights that the deserve to be intensely disliked?” – Rowan Atkinson [Message: Religious people are so evil its okay to be bigots/mean to them.]
4. “With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that take religion.” – Steven Weinberg. [Message: Religion is a special type of evil that turns good people evil.]
5. “You can’t convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it’s based on a deep-seated need to believe.” Carl Sagan [Message: Once more, believers have no reasons for believing as they do. They are ignorant, superstitious people.]

These are the leaders! Can you imagine how horrible some of the minions are? I know an atheist who does nothing but mock Apologetic books on amazon, posting under each and every theist comment a cut up of their words interspersed with the words “hilarious” or “idiotic” or some other insult every sentence.

Here’s one of his more cogent replies (often it’s all just renditions of hilarious every sentence or so).

“to demonstrate that theistic belief is, and has been for thousands of years, rationally supported by a number of painstakingly detailed arguments that, despite popular belief, have never actually been refuted by atheists–only ignored by them.”

Hilarious. Perhaps worthless non-arguments should be ignored?

“Feser defends a comprehensive metaphysical system of thought that derives most of its philosophical foundation from Aristotle and Thomas Aquinas.”

Hilarious. Who cares? Philosophers? So what? Religious believers? So what?

“the truth of theism follows logically and necessarily from the very plausible premises of Aristotelian/Thomistic arguments.”

Hilarious.

“Feser targets this “brute fact” feature of the Mechanical Philosophy as plainly inferior to the purposive or “teleological” metaphysical system advanced by Aristotle and Thomas Aquinas.”

Hilarious. “Plainly inferior”??? What an expected and worthless opinion!

“For example, William Dembski, a well-known Intelligent Design theorist, proposed an “explanatory filter” in his 1996 book The Design Inference”

Hilarious. Now you have “jumped the rails” into ID nonsense.

“he suggests that Intelligent Design advocates “foolishly concede the mechanistic assumptions of their opponents””

Hilarious. In other words, those ID advocates are actually trying to deal with “reality”!!

“God literally sustains the world in every moment”

Hilarious. Who cares? How long will he continue to do this? It’s been about 13.8 billion years so far! Should I hold my breath waiting for him to stop “sustaining” reality?

“the debate between theism and atheism centers on the question of whether anything in the universe can exist in the absence of God”

Hilarious. And you wonder why Dawkins has not bothered to address such a possibility???

“What is important to note in these arguments is the absence of appeals to “divine revelation” or “biblical authority.””

WRONG!!! What is important to note is that this is mere “hand-waving” without the slightest bit of EVIDENCE!!!

SO OF COURSE IT IS IGNORED AS IRRELEVANT NONSENSE.

I understand the want to defend your group Daddygirl, I really do, but your assumptions here are utterly misguided and based, I think, on the assumption that your own group can do no wrong. To the contrary – regularly, the most nasty people I meet concerning religion are atheist fundamentalists. This is not to say that all are this way, but it is an accusation that many are, as evidenced by hateful comments splashed all over the web and the world.

That, by the way, is the point of theists pointing to “evil atheists” – not to show that all atheists are evil (what nonsense! I know a great many atheists I love and respect), but to show that they too are capable of immoral, bigoted deeds as well. Atheism is not perfect. It is not some “neutral philosophy” that has not brought its own set of monsters into the world. Being an atheist does not make you evil; neither does it make you good or “enlightened,” and some atheists really need to understand that.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I acknowledge that your post is crying out to be convinced but at the same time it intimates that nothing anyone posts would sway you. You have your own cross to bear (whether you acknowledge it or not) and we have ours which is why congregate here to learn from and help each other.

We are not here to convert you or convince you. You joined the group, what were you hoping to get out of it? I guess the question is “why are you on CAF?” when it clearly leaves you unsatisfied on so many points.

 

[Bradski]

Are you kidding?!

C’mon Fractal. Bonnie didn’t just say that some atheists give you guys a hard time (and like it doesn’t work both ways). Personally, I like to keep on friendly terms, but let me know if you want to take the gloves off.

But the point being, Bonnie specifically said that some atheists beleive ALL Christians to be either hypocrites AND child molestors or just child molestors.

I guess maybe she didn’t say exactly what she meant to say as no-one in the right mind would think such a thing. I believe Daddy Girl was simply pointing that out. So thanks for all the Rowan Atkinson quotes. I didn’t know he was an atheist… Just got to show, I suppose. One can’t tell unless the person actually nominates as such.

And in any case, as far as I know, Atkinson (or Dawkins or Dennet or any other atheist ‘leader’ (what a strange term) doesn’t post here. As they say, the views posted here are purely my own and are not meant to represent anyone else’s.

Isn’t that what a forum is for? So I can listen to your personal viewpoint and you mine? Quote mining doesn’t serve any purpose except to increase the traffic on Google.

 

[Nixbits]

FractalFire:

Are you kidding?!

I don’t think DaddyGirl was kidding. I also know many atheists, yet I don’t know any that believe that all Christians are hypocrites and/or child abusers, as Bonnie alleged.

FractalFire:

How could you possibly be an atheist and not meet someone who acts like that?

Quite easily, it seems. If there are any atheists like this they seem to be few and far between.

FractalFire:

Must we quote them?

No, there’s no need. But you did anyway. However, the quotes you provided do not demonstrate that any of these four people believe what Bonnie suggested. So what was the point of including these quotes? Your reasoning eludes me.