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arvo
Guest
Hi! Whats wrong with You, American Catholics?
It is hard for Catholics to vote. Democrats are good because of their solidarity economic policies, but bad because of cultural issues. Republicans are opposite. So - why there is not good Catholic party in America? Which is centrist, with enough economic solidarity and with cultural values? Why not such party?
The answer is simple! Because You, yes, You personally, have not done anything to build such party.
I am in party politics in my country for some years and I have seen enough of those processes. I have seen how genuine social-democratic party was made during the timespan of 10 years. It achieved nothing in all three elections (municipal, parliamentary and European) but this time it is going in coalition to win the municipal elections. Quite a path and achievement for some tens of people who were not willing to sit at computer and write angry and sad comments, instead, who had passion for action! I am seeing how the genuine Christian party if being made in our country. This party if full of very strange and funny people (the knight of Holy Sepulcher without permanent business employment is just one of them).
Well, but reality is simple - you can build genuine social-democratic or social-liberal party and you can win with it, because these times demand such politics. But you can build genuine Catholic parties one after another and you will achieve nothing, because there is no demand for such policies. It is as simple at that.
Of course, you can see at the screen and write comments against this situation and against the catholics who goes into conventional party politics, but there is no sense in all of this.
I see the sense in action only. However small and irrelevant it may be.
My latest enjoyment is US Transhumanist party - small party with around 2000 members but it is the party of the future. Politics is so interesting to day, when the Industrial revolution 4.0 develops and with it it changes the society. It is so interesting to try to shape and manage those processes and not to feel helpless at the hands or mercy of some other persons.
It is hard for Catholics to vote. Democrats are good because of their solidarity economic policies, but bad because of cultural issues. Republicans are opposite. So - why there is not good Catholic party in America? Which is centrist, with enough economic solidarity and with cultural values? Why not such party?
The answer is simple! Because You, yes, You personally, have not done anything to build such party.
I am in party politics in my country for some years and I have seen enough of those processes. I have seen how genuine social-democratic party was made during the timespan of 10 years. It achieved nothing in all three elections (municipal, parliamentary and European) but this time it is going in coalition to win the municipal elections. Quite a path and achievement for some tens of people who were not willing to sit at computer and write angry and sad comments, instead, who had passion for action! I am seeing how the genuine Christian party if being made in our country. This party if full of very strange and funny people (the knight of Holy Sepulcher without permanent business employment is just one of them).
Well, but reality is simple - you can build genuine social-democratic or social-liberal party and you can win with it, because these times demand such politics. But you can build genuine Catholic parties one after another and you will achieve nothing, because there is no demand for such policies. It is as simple at that.
Of course, you can see at the screen and write comments against this situation and against the catholics who goes into conventional party politics, but there is no sense in all of this.
I see the sense in action only. However small and irrelevant it may be.
My latest enjoyment is US Transhumanist party - small party with around 2000 members but it is the party of the future. Politics is so interesting to day, when the Industrial revolution 4.0 develops and with it it changes the society. It is so interesting to try to shape and manage those processes and not to feel helpless at the hands or mercy of some other persons.
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arvo
Guest
Additional note. There are many activities available for the party building. But personally I am on more intellectual side of them - generating and shaping ideas, doing economic modelling (like DSGE), suggesting law. Especially I am interested in the industrial strategies and the strategies of Artificial Intelligence - very hot themes today. But other people are necessary too - door-to-door campaigning also can have some impact.
Just wanted to say - politics is more about ideas, about fight and argument between ideas. I hope that people are clever and rational enough to base the choice on such fights and not on shouting be it on the web or in the door-to-door campaigning.
So - I guess - if it can be really worth to build nice web page for you catholic party group, to recruit intellectuals who generate ideas, to build Facebook community, to engage into academic and journalistic discussions. But then soon you will see where the rational choice is and it may happen that on this path you will discover that Biden is more rational than you. I don’t say exactly this, but it may happen. Maybe that is the reason why you are afraid of action or why you even don’t consider to start one - because any action involves reasoning and rational choices and it may happen that after some deliberation you will be where Biden is already.
Just wanted to say - politics is more about ideas, about fight and argument between ideas. I hope that people are clever and rational enough to base the choice on such fights and not on shouting be it on the web or in the door-to-door campaigning.
So - I guess - if it can be really worth to build nice web page for you catholic party group, to recruit intellectuals who generate ideas, to build Facebook community, to engage into academic and journalistic discussions. But then soon you will see where the rational choice is and it may happen that on this path you will discover that Biden is more rational than you. I don’t say exactly this, but it may happen. Maybe that is the reason why you are afraid of action or why you even don’t consider to start one - because any action involves reasoning and rational choices and it may happen that after some deliberation you will be where Biden is already.
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ioannes_pius
Guest
Have you checked out the American Solidarity Party?
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arvo
Guest
I will study it later, very interesting. So - you already have some choice. Congratulations! Just more action and it can be real fun. It is so interesting to join the local party community, to engage into real-world workshops, intra-party voting etc.!
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dscath
Guest
Please don’t paint American Catholics with such a broad brush. Father Z’s opinions are not those required to be accepted by American Catholics, but are just his opinions.
Some of us, and some of our Bishops see things a little differently.
And, I am proud of my Bishop, here in the diocese of San Diego…if some Catholics do not agree with him, fine, but nothing he says is heresy, and I will summarily ignore claims as valid made by those that say the words of the Bishop are meaningless because they don’t like or agree with the policy of the site it was published on.
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1ke
Guest
The answer is not simple. I suggest you study the two party system in the US to understand why other parties are nearly irrelevant and there is no equivalent to European style parliaments and coalition governments.
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whatistrue
Guest
*Citation needed. You claimed it, you prove it.
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stpurl
Guest
I hope there is a more reliable article than one from a site that has been forbidden several times by the diocesean bishop from using “Catholic” in its title. . .
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TheLittleLady
Guest
United States Conference of Catholic Bishop’s document “Forming Consiounces for Faithful Citizenship”. You can look it up without linking through any other publication.
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dscath
Guest
And simply go to the San Diego diocese website, but the text is the same…shooting the messenger is seldom a reliable argument.
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stpurl
Guest
Since so many people object to sites that are seen as extreme, I merely asked if there was a more ‘neutral site’. You and TheLittleLady answered that. Not ‘shooting the messenger’ but asking for a link or site so that I would not have to click a link to a site I find questionable.
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JSRG
Guest
The American Solidarity Party. (their candidate this election, for the record, is Brian Carroll)
Someone already mentioned them but I thought it would be useful to actually link to them.
This is part of it, and the American Solidarity Party seems to be a case of building up such a party. I also will say that for too many people, it seems their idea of supporting third parties is to vote for them during the election and do nothing else… which is great, don’t get me wrong, but what’s more useful than a vote would be a donation, even if it’s just a few dollars. $5 to a third party goes further than a vote does.
However, there is another notable factor. In virtually all elections, the United States uses first-past-the-post voting, also known as plurality voting; it’s a voting scheme where you vote for one candidate and whoever gets the most votes wins. Its advantage is that it’s simple… and its disadvantage is practically everything else. The pertinent issue here is that it makes it difficult for more than two real political parties to become viable. Not impossible, but it’s a major uphill battle.
The good news is that Ranked Choice Voting seems to be gaining popularity. Maine has it and I’m hoping that the other states that have put it on their referendums list this year (Massachusetts, Alaska, and North Dakota) will pass it. Then it may spread to other states.
I do not know what your country is, but I expect it uses something other than first past the post (or perhaps it does use first past the post, but combined with something else like proportional voting).
I don’t see the Transhumanist Party doing much of anything. I don’t think it’s a platform that has wide enough appeal to actually run a party on.
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StudentMI
Guest
Oh for a Leon Bloy to deal with today’s hypocritical elite.
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Lucy_1
Guest
I really think this is key in order to get someone decent in office. I should work towards getting it on the ballot in my state.
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JSRG
Guest
Not sure what state you live in, but there may already be a group working towards it. For example, there are groups in Michigan, Colorado, Virginia, and undoubtedly a lot of others that I haven’t linked to because it would take too long to look them all up. Honestly, a simple search for “Ranked Choice Voting” and your state name in a search engine will probably turn up any such groups.JSRG:
I really think this is key in order to get someone decent in office. I should work towards getting it on the ballot in my state.
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pnewton
Guest
Even though this priest engages in controversial topics a lot, I still agree with most of what he says. However, I will never agree with his use of sarcasm and belittling. This too bothered me. From the article:
Remember that kissing the ring of a pope is a custom. Honoring one’s father and mother is a direct commandment from God.
Also, no priest should be battling his brother priests and mocking them the way he did the Jesuits. His final comment is something else:
The magazine is America, by the way. This sort of stuff is uncalled for from a priest.
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stpurl
Guest
He is a good man and a good priest—not a perfect one. Some of the remarks lately are a little snarky at times, but the majority are pretty darn charitable.
The thing is, we have gotten to the point in the “Church of Nice’ where we expect our priests to be Pollyannas, all “Easter People”, ‘love and cherish”, and the only ‘needling’ remarks are couched in terms of calling out the “rigid’. We are at such a point that we don’t even SEE labeling somebody as ‘rigid’ is just as problematic as putting a ‘k’ in “America’ magazine. I often wonder if this is Father Z’s way of calling the attention of people to labels.
The thing is, we have gotten to the point in the “Church of Nice’ where we expect our priests to be Pollyannas, all “Easter People”, ‘love and cherish”, and the only ‘needling’ remarks are couched in terms of calling out the “rigid’. We are at such a point that we don’t even SEE labeling somebody as ‘rigid’ is just as problematic as putting a ‘k’ in “America’ magazine. I often wonder if this is Father Z’s way of calling the attention of people to labels.
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christofirst
Guest
God bless Bishop McElroy! And God bless Fr. Z. too, even though I personally agree with and am more grateful for Bishop McElroy’s ministry.
I always get the feeling, when US elections come around, that some of us wish that the Church would say definitively, given the choice of two candidates or two political parties, that a Catholic must vote for one and not the other. I dread the thought of this, for I think it would make the Church a tool or a pawn of one particular political party or candidate, and as it stands now, neither one is completely in line or out of line with Church teaching.
As individual Catholics, we can be passionate about one particular issue, and I respect that, but as it stands now, the Church clearly teaches that there is more than one issue to consider, and more than one way to encourage society to align with what we Catholics understand as God’s will.
I always get the feeling, when US elections come around, that some of us wish that the Church would say definitively, given the choice of two candidates or two political parties, that a Catholic must vote for one and not the other. I dread the thought of this, for I think it would make the Church a tool or a pawn of one particular political party or candidate, and as it stands now, neither one is completely in line or out of line with Church teaching.
As individual Catholics, we can be passionate about one particular issue, and I respect that, but as it stands now, the Church clearly teaches that there is more than one issue to consider, and more than one way to encourage society to align with what we Catholics understand as God’s will.
“What’s wrong with us”, you say? Oh… where shall I begin?.. we live in a country where a binary two-party system has morphed into the way the government, as a practical matter, “works”. We are not a European-style parliamentary democracy with multiple “niche” parties where governing coalitions need to be assembled, and governments can “fall” at the drop of a hat, if there is a vote of no confidence. We don’t limp along for protracted periods without a government at all, like, for instance, Belgium. We basically have an elected, non-hereditary, limited monarchy of sorts, for a legally prescribed period of time, and that “monarch” is both head of state and head of government. (And if the voters choose to elect a president from the same family as a previous one, viz. the Adamses, Harrisons, Roosevelts, Bushes, and if things had gone a little differently, the Clintons, thus adding an accidentally “hereditary” factor to it, that is the choice of the voters, and would be the direct choice of the electors, if we had adhered to the original constitutional plan.) And our electoral vote system is no more bizarre, and no more undemocratic, than proportional representation in some parliaments, where “getting the most votes” doesn’t automatically mean that an MP candidate gets elected to a given seat.
We work with what we have. If Catholics broke off and started their own party, or even joined forces with evangelicals to create a “Christian democratic party”, the best they could hope for, would be to become power brokers, such as the Bloc Quebecois or the Scottish National Party. That definitely has its points, but I’m not sure it would work here. And far too many Catholics see themselves as Americans first, and Catholics second.
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