The Catholic Church

[Peter_J]

“ROMAN” now defines us.

There are many who claim they’re “catholic” but do not accept what The Roman Catholic Church professes! Indeed, many Christian churches recite The Creed with confidence as long as ‘Catholic’ has a small “c”!

“Roman” means acceptance that the Seat of Catholicism is in Rome!

Wherever you are in the world, when you claim that you are Roman Catholic, the hearer infers that you follow The Pope, which is entirely, ACCURATE!

I pretty much agree with everything you said; but I think that ‘“ROMAN” now defines us’ is an overstatement. I.e. I’m not entirely comfortable saying that it “defines” us.

With regard to ‘“Roman” means acceptance that the Seat of Catholicism is in Rome!’ I would say Yes, but I’d like to emphasize that the Seat of Catholicism is in currently in Rome. Let’s not forget that the very first Pope was the Bishop of Antioch for a little while, before he transferred his See to Rome.

 

[guanophore]

"ROMAN" now defines us.

Only if you are a Latin Rite Catholic.

There are many who claim they’re “catholic” but do not accept what The Roman Catholic Church professes! Indeed, many Christian churches recite The Creed with confidence as long as ‘Catholic’ has a small “c”!

You seem to have no awareness of the 22 Catholic Rites in union with the successor of Peter that are non-Roman.

“Roman” means acceptance that the Seat of Catholicism is in Rome!

I am sure it also does mean that, but more primarily it means a member of the Latin Rite. All the other Catholic Rites also are in communion with the successor of Peter.

Wherever you are in the world, when you claim that you are Roman Catholic, the hearer infers that you follow The Pope, which is entirely, ACCURATE!

The same is the case with other Catholics.

 

[Peter_J]

As I’ve said elsewhere, I don’t consider the term “the Roman Catholic Church” to be incorrect; but sometimes it’s preferable to say “the Roman Catholic Communion”, so as to emphasize that we’re referring to all those who are in full communion with Rome (regardless of whether they be in the Latin Church or in one of the 22 Eastern Catholic Churches). I think that also helps to avoid the attitude of “The Eastern Catholic Churches aren’t really churches, they’re just rites” – which is offensive to Eastern Catholics.

Also bear in mind my comment in #438 about "The Roman Catholic Church, officially known as the Catholic Church … " etc.

 

[Cinette]

As I’ve said elsewhere, I don’t consider the term “the Roman Catholic Church” to be incorrect; but sometimes it’s preferable to say “the Roman Catholic Communion”, so as to emphasize that we’re referring to all those who are in full communion with Rome (regardless of whether they be in the Latin Church or in one of the 22 Eastern Catholic Churches). I think that also helps to avoid the attitude of “The Eastern Catholic Churches aren’t really churches, they’re just rites” – which is offensive to Eastern Catholics.

Also bear in mind my comment in #438 about "The Roman Catholic Church, officially known as the Catholic Church … " etc.

If it is official then why…?

 

[Peter_J]

If it is official then why…?

I don’t know what to answer for the “why”; but I think the fact that “the Catholic Church” is the official name is pretty well attested to, by the fact that wikipedia – a neutral, third-party (neither Catholic nor Protestant, nor Orthodox for that matter) encyclopedia – says so.

The Roman Catholic Church, officially known as the Catholic Church,[note 1] is the world’s largest Christian church, representing over half of all Christians and one-sixth of the world’s population.

 

[Cinette]

I don’t know what to answer for the “why”; but I think the fact that “the Catholic Church” is the official name is pretty well attested to, by the fact that wikipedia – a neutral, third-party (neither Catholic nor Protestant, nor Orthodox for that matter) encyclopedia – says so.

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

 

[Deconi]

I pretty much agree with everything you said; but I think that ‘“ROMAN” now defines us’ is an overstatement. I.e. I’m not entirely comfortable saying that it “defines” us.

With regard to ‘“Roman” means acceptance that the Seat of Catholicism is in Rome!’ I would say Yes, but I’d like to emphasize that** the Seat of Catholicism is in currently** in Rome. Let’s not forget that the very first Pope was the Bishop of Antioch for a little while, before he transferred his See to Rome.

Not really arguing Pete, because I understand all you mean.

I’ve encountered Orthodox views that touch the part I’ve emboldened, but that’s an argument in itself! I hold that St Peter DID NOT transfer his See to Rome! Had he died whilst still Bishop of Antioch, that is where his See would have remained to today! His successors would have had to be located there!

Antioch REMAINS entire and complete as a See in and of Herself! St Ignatius was Her Bishop when he ‘coined’ us all as “Catholics” throughout the entire universe! Yes, interplanetary too, if we get there!

St Peter died whilst Bishop of Rome! Therefore, ONLY THERE, can his Seat be made manifest. Had he lived and again moved, say to Constantinope, the Popes would have had to be located there!

As a demonstration of my understanding…if the serving President of the USA (God forbid!) should drop dead in Russia during a Presidential visit, does that mean the next president must be established in Russia? NO! His presidency remains in the USA and a ‘successor’ must be there! The only difference here is Russians / Africans / New Zealanders are not obliged to “FOLLOW” the President as Catholics follow The Pope.

I’m sure I can make that clearer!! …sorry. Tired.

I have some interesting views with ‘Quads’ comments above too…tomorrow, maybe…*

 

[Deconi]

Not really arguing Pete, because I understand all you mean.

 

[Deconi]

Only if you are a Latin Rite Catholic.

It is much more than that; beyond the rite.

You seem to have no awareness of the 22 Catholic Rites in union with the successor of Peter that are non-Roman.

On the contrary. Currently, only 22 of the East follow Rome. It is precisely, in the East, that my point is applicable.

Ask 3 Christians there and 2 - claim they are Catholic;
1 - says, ‘I am Roman Catholic.’ That ‘one’ understands what I say. The other 2- MAY be Catholics in communion with Rome, but it is not definitive.

I am sure it also does mean that, but more primarily it means a member of the Latin Rite. All the other Catholic Rites also are in communion with the successor of Peter.

It still identifies a member of the Latin Rite. But the whole world is NO LONGER, predominantly, Catholic. In the thousands of Christian belief systems now in existence, some confused to the point of believing Catholics are not Christians; or Catholics consist of several DIFFERENT denominations!!!..

…“Roman Catholic” is now several statements in itself.
‘I am Catholic.’
‘No, I don’t mean ‘catholic’ Christian.’
‘I mean true blue, certified and bonafide card carrying member of The Catholic Church.’
‘I ‘follow’ the Bishop of Rome, being the Leader of that Church.’

The same is the case with other Catholics.

…including other Catholic Rites.

 

[Peter_J]

On the contrary. Currently, only 22 of the East follow Rome. It is precisely, in the East, that my point is applicable.

Ask 3 Christians there and 2 - claim they are Catholic;
1 - says, ‘I am Roman Catholic.’ That ‘one’ understands what I say. The other 2- MAY be Catholics in communion with Rome, but it is not definitive.

I think it would be better if you didn’t start speaking in riddles.

Within the Roman Catholic Communion there’s the Latin Church and the 22 Eastern Catholic Churches – not “22 of the East”.

And those 22 EC Churches ARE in full communion with Rome; there’s no “MAY” about it, nor is their communion with Rome any less certain than it is for those in the Latin Church.

 

[Matariel]

Let’s not forget that the very first Pope was the Bishop of Antioch for a little while, before he transferred his See to Rome.

I agree. Also, the holy Papacy was centered in Avignon for a short while also.

 

[jake23]

Catholics are not supposed to be vane enough to assume by there own thoughts what the church is that’s how protestant became lost! We are to intrust the leaders of the church who have been trained in these matters to teach us the way! This sounds like catholics arguing with catholics! We should be cald mainly catholics but the head of the church is in rome and we must go by his instruction! He is the successor of peter and what the pope says goes not our opinions!

 

[Peter_J]

Catholics are not supposed to be vane enough to assume by there own thoughts what the church is that’s how protestant became lost! We are to intrust the leaders of the church who have been trained in these matters to teach us the way! This sounds like catholics arguing with catholics!

To paraphrase C-3PO: Oh my goodness. Catholics arguing with Catholics. How perverse.