The Catholic Church's stand on protesting Planned Parenthood Clinics

[sonofgeorge]

I’m new to this site and to the forums but I’ve got a question that I’d like to ask. First some background. I live in a medium sized community of about 70,000 and we have one Planned Parenthood Clinic. Since rejoining the Catholic Church I have been attending a small chapel that offers a Latin Mass every day. This chapel is not recognized as a church by the diocese and as a result we don’t have a parish priest just an assistant priest that is assigned to say Mass each day and administer the sacraments of Penance and Communion. No other sacraments can be received at this chapel. This is the only “church” that has had a Latin Mass in this town between 1962 and September 14, 2007. I have recently joined with some of the chapel’s Pro-Life parishioners and each Friday at 3PM we stand on a street corner, that we have received a permit for, with our signs and recite the rosary. Our current priest has joined us for the last two weeks and plans to continue. Our previous priest had been told by our bishop not to participate in the protests. Our current priest has mentioned that he thinks he will soon be told the same thing. Now, my question is this, if the Catholic Church has so strict rules regarding abortion, why do they not actively and I mean actively participate in discouraging it and try to get the Planned Parenthood clinics to close down. Just saying abortion of any form is wrong is not be enough. Why discourage protesting and why disallow priests from actively supporting Pro-Life. I read that Denver bishops are now protesting in some way the building of a new Planned Parenthood clinic near Denver. Why just now?

 

[RachelsAlumni]

if the Catholic Church has so strict rules regarding abortion, why do they not actively and I mean actively participate in discouraging it and try to get the Planned Parenthood clinics to close down.

I don’t see the Church’s teaching on life as a ‘strict rule’ as much as it is a teaching on the sanctity of life. It’s a teaching on the dignity and intrinsic value of every human life. If you haven’t read it, Pope John Paul II’s Evangelium Vitae is a wonderful treatise on the dignity of life.

Your question assumes that the only way to actively participate in discouraging abortion is to stand in front of a PP clinic holding signs. This is not the case. I would argue that intercessory prayer and penance are much more valuable for changing human hearts and minds. There is a prolife “Sisters for Life” contemplative religious congregation that engages in perpetual, contemplative prayer and it would be uncharitable to say they are failing to ‘actively participate in discouraging abortion’ because they don’t stand holding signs in front of abortuaries. There are a plethora of ways to evangelize a gospel of life, and although a prayerful presence at the source is a great way to evangelize it’s certainly not the only way.

Why discourage protesting and why disallow priests from actively supporting Pro-Life.

Again, you make an assumption that priests are disallowed from ‘actively supporting Pro-Life’ simply because the priest has been told by his superior not to participate in these protests. Who knows why the Bishop does not want his priests engaging in protests? Regardless of the Bishops reasons, I do know that humble obediance is very powerful and these priests can use their obediance for the good of your cause.

IMO opinion priests are doing the absolute best thing to evangelize by bringing us the Eucharist. There is nothing superior than the Eucharist. Any efforts outside of that and the other sacraments are inferior human means.

 

[1ke]

Each person is called to work for the Culture of Life in different ways.

Bishops included.

This Bishop has his reasons, which we are not privvy to. That does not mean he is not working for the Culture of Life, nor does it mean the Church is not.

And, since you have only *recently *joined in with the pro-life group you lack perspective. You ask why the bishop of Denver is “just now” protesting against PP. This shows that you have not done your research. The Bishops as a whole, and specific Bishops individually, have done MANY things to promote the culture of life and to fight against abortion in their dioceses. The Bishop of Denver has been very outspoken against PP for years.

Christ gives us all different charisms. And, perhaps this bishop in your diocese does not believe that “protesting” is the best way for his priests to work for the Kingdom.

Perhaps too something happened at the clinic in the past that you don’t know about, such as violence or arrests, that influenced the Bishop’s decision. Remember, the priests are not only individual people but employees of/representatives of the diocese and the Bishop.

It is the Bishop’s perogative and while you may not agree with it, the priest is called to obedience. God bless you for standing and praying, it is definitely a witness for Christ and women’s hearts and minds are changed. But, when they turn away from the clinic there has to be somewhere for them to go-- so perhaps the priest can establish a relationship with a crisis pregnancy center and help support it through the chapel.

 

[Larry1700]

The Church position against abortion is a strict rule. Abortion is intrinsically evil, meaning it is wrong in all circumstances. Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, read Humanae Vitae, and read the latest “Faithful Citizenship” document published this month by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

That being said, I am fast becoming an embittered convert to Catholicism. 7 years ago the walls came tumbling down which prevented me from fully accepting Church teaching, and I was amazed at the wonderful treasury of encyclicals, Tradition, doctrine, etc. to be found in the Church. I saw that Jesus established the Church, founded it upon Peter, gave Peter and the apostles the authority to bind and loose sins, etc. The authority of the Church is therefore, grounded upon the authority of Jesus Christ.

Now, however, 7 years later, I am seeing that what the Church teaching stands for is not always followed by her bishops and priests. A good example is the San Francisco incident where Archbishop Niederauer (sp?) gave our Lord’s precious body and blood to those who openly persecute the Church. Another example, cited by Fr. Corrapi, is where over 100 bishops in Canada signed a document stating that it’s okay to use contraceptives. And, of course, we have the sickening and hearbreaking cases of child molestation by priests, along with apparent cover-ups by the bishops.

I try to comfort myself by saying they are only men, and men make mistakes. However, it’s hard to square that with the fact that the bishop of each diocese is supposed to be our spiritual leader. How can I be confident in what the bishop tells me, in light of all the above? I find myself questioning their statements, and I don’t like it at all. If I have to use my own judgement to decide wheter what they’re saying is right or wrong I feel like I might as well go back to the Baptist faith (except you can’ get the Eucharist there).

I desperately want to believe that the bishops are in line with Rome, and are teaching the Truth with authority granted by Christ. However, the even you described, and the ones I mentioned above, lead me to believe otherwise.

I don’t like it this way at all.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

Now, however, 7 years later, I am seeing that what the Church teaching stands for is not always followed by her bishops and priests. A good example is the San Francisco incident where Archbishop Niederauer (sp?) gave our Lord’s precious body and blood to those who openly persecute the Church. Another example, cited by Fr. Corrapi, is where over 100 bishops in Canada signed a document stating that it’s okay to use contraceptives. And, of course, we have the sickening and hearbreaking cases of child molestation by priests, along with apparent cover-ups by the bishops.

I try to comfort myself by saying they are only men, and men make mistakes. However, it’s hard to square that with the fact that the bishop of each diocese is supposed to be our spiritual leader. How can I be confident in what the bishop tells me, in light of all the above? I find myself questioning their statements, and I don’t like it at all. If I have to use my own judgement to decide wheter what they’re saying is right or wrong I feel like I might as well go back to the Baptist faith (except you can’ get the Eucharist there).

The worst thing (or one of the worst things) you could do in response would be to revert to the Baptist faith.

I understand your frustration, but you have to remember that Christ never promised us that the leaders of the Church would never sin, nor that they would even be good leaders. What he did promise is that it would never teach in error – period.

The concerns you raise are precisely why we must pray for our clergy. Remember: the Church isn’t “home base”, where the Devil can’t tag you and make you “it”. We each have responsibilities, and sometimes we must put our own desire for spiritual comfort aside and just obey – and pray for those who need it.

If the Church is the font of truth, then it is a supremely selfish – not to mention misguided – act to leave her because one doesn’t think one is “being fed”.

Peace,
Dante

 

[Newbie2]

The concerns you raise are precisely why we must pray for our clergy. Remember: the Church isn’t “home base”, where the Devil can’t tag you and make you “it”. We each have responsibilities, and sometimes we must put our own desire for spiritual comfort aside and just obey – and pray for those who need it.

Peace,
Dante

Exactomundo! The Church is a perfect place run by imperfect humans.

 

[RachelsAlumni]

Larry1700;2982834]The Church position against abortion is a strict rule. Abortion is intrinsically evil, meaning it is wrong in all circumstances. Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, read Humanae Vitae, and read the latest “Faithful Citizenship” document published this month by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

Larry I think you might have misread what I wrote when I said:

I don’t see the Church’s teaching on life as a ‘strict rule’ as much as it is a teaching on the sanctity of life. It’s a teaching on the dignity and intrinsic value of every human life. If you haven’t read it, Pope John Paul II’s Evangelium Vitae is a wonderful treatise on the dignity of life.

I was not disagreeing with church teaching on the value of human life. Quite the contrary, I agree wholeheartedly with the church’s teachings which is why I recommended reading Evangelium Vitae (Gospel of Life). I simply try to view the Church’s teachings in a positve way i.e. moving out into the world to evangelize the good news vs. negative way of strict rules, don’t do this - don’t do that. I figure if a person is evangelized, taught and believes the teachings of the Church that a human being from their very first moments of conception to their natural death is life, a gift from God, and has dignity and value by the simple fact that they are God’s child created in His image and likeness then from the get-go that person will respect & protect that life throughout it’s lifespan more so than if I just shout out “Hey, it’s against the Church’s strict rules”.

I see my vocation as a teaching, evangelizing vocation more so than a ‘protesting’, judging or condemning vocation.

When Christ said the gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church I see that as the Church being the forward moving force pressing against the gates of hell. Gates are things that protect, they are for the most part stationary and not a forward moving force of themselves, but both a barrier to protect against a charging force and to imprison those within it’s gates. Therefore I see the Church’s mission to be an ever forward moving force pressing against the gates of hell.

 

[melensdad]

. . . I have been attending a small chapel that offers a Latin Mass every day. This chapel is not recognized as a church by the diocese . . . I have recently joined with some of the chapel’s Pro-Life parishioners and each Friday at 3PM we stand on a street corner, that we have received a permit for, with our signs and recite the rosary. Our current priest has joined us for the last two weeks and plans to continue. Our previous priest had been told by our bishop not to participate in the protests. Our current priest has mentioned that he thinks he will soon be told the same thing. Now, my question is this, if the Catholic Church has so strict rules regarding abortion, why do they not actively and I mean actively participate in discouraging it. . .

Maybe its just me, but it is possible that we don’t have a full understanding of the ENTIRE situation regarding the chapel you attend? Perhaps the priest is not being discouraged from protesting abortion, but rather is being discouraged from participating in activities at that chapel, because, for whatever reason, that chapel is not fully recognized as a parish that is in line with complete church teaching??? I’m clearly only guessing, but something seems odd about the whole situation.

 

[hasikelee]

I’m new to this site and to the forums but I’ve got a question that I’d like to ask. First some background. I live in a medium sized community of about 70,000 and we have one Planned Parenthood Clinic. Since rejoining the Catholic Church I have been attending a small chapel that offers a Latin Mass every day. This chapel is not recognized as a church by the diocese and as a result we don’t have a parish priest just an assistant priest that is assigned to say Mass each day and administer the sacraments of Penance and Communion. No other sacraments can be received at this chapel. This is the only “church” that has had a Latin Mass in this town between 1962 and September 14, 2007. I have recently joined with some of the chapel’s Pro-Life parishioners and each Friday at 3PM we stand on a street corner, that we have received a permit for, with our signs and recite the rosary. Our current priest has joined us for the last two weeks and plans to continue. Our previous priest had been told by our bishop not to participate in the protests. Our current priest has mentioned that he thinks he will soon be told the same thing. Now, my question is this, if the Catholic Church has so strict rules regarding abortion, why do they not actively and I mean actively participate in discouraging it and try to get the Planned Parenthood clinics to close down. Just saying abortion of any form is wrong is not be enough. Why discourage protesting and why disallow priests from actively supporting Pro-Life. I read that Denver bishops are now protesting in some way the building of a new Planned Parenthood clinic near Denver. Why just now?

How thoroughly have you researched the situation? Remember that a priest is not someone acting on his own behalf, with only himself at risk in what he does, but rather he is a representative of the whole Catholic church.

If there is a history of violence, or even just one incident, the Bishop may be inclined to protect his priest from any risk, and thereby also protect the Church.

Have you checked to see if new laws have been enacted recently? Some states have laws that prevent protests, prevent standing in certain places, prevent certain people from “loitering” etc. The Bishop may be aware of these and is complying with the law.

At least realize that this is one incident in a world of millions. Why do you feel one bishop and one priest have settled the judgment of hypocrisy against the church?

In our archdiocese, the Cathedral celebrates a pro-life Mass once a month, with clergy celebrating, marching and praying the rosary with us. It all depends on the situation.

 

[chrisg93]

Some of you have misunderstood the pro-life teaching of the Church.

The Catachism says that “The moral Law prohibits…refusing a person in danger”. Those babies are in danger of death.

The parable of the Good Samaritan never mentions prayer, not at all, not one single prayer. It simply and plainly says that we must STOP to help those babies by the side of the road about to be killed. We are commanded to do likewise, every one of us.

The Church commands us to do the Spirtual Acts of Mercy at the abortion clinic…Council the Doubtful, Instruct the Ignorant and Admonish the Sinner.

If you substitute prayer instead of stopping to actually help the babies you are in danger of being like the crowd that mocked Jesus on the Cross by saying “If you are the son of God, then save yourself”. You may actually be saying “If you are the Son of God then go save those babies, I’m not going to lift a finger. If you want them saved - then go save them yourself.”

 

[ProdigalSun]

Some of you have misunderstood the pro-life teaching of the Church.

The Catachism says that “The moral Law prohibits…refusing a person in danger”. Those babies are in danger of death.

The parable of the Good Samaritan never mentions prayer, not at all, not one single prayer. It simply and plainly says that we must STOP to help those babies by the side of the road about to be killed. We are commanded to do likewise, every one of us.

The Church commands us to do the Spirtual Acts of Mercy at the abortion clinic…Council the Doubtful, Instruct the Ignorant and Admonish the Sinner.

If you substitute prayer instead of stopping to actually help the babies you are in danger of being like the crowd that mocked Jesus on the Cross by saying “If you are the son of God, then save yourself”. You may actually be saying “If you are the Son of God then go save those babies, I’m not going to lift a finger. If you want them saved - then go save them yourself.”

I firmly disagree with your premise here. Prayer is our greatest weapon against all things evil. I also believe more babies have been saved through prayer than all the other avenues we use to stop our abortionist brothers & sisters. The Holy Spirit is our greatest ally to convert a persons heart from evil to good and a prayer from a rightous person will avail us much.

Peace!

 

[hasikelee]

Some of you have misunderstood the pro-life teaching of the Church.

The Catachism says that “The moral Law prohibits…refusing a person in danger”. Those babies are in danger of death.

The parable of the Good Samaritan never mentions prayer, not at all, not one single prayer. It simply and plainly says that we must STOP to help those babies by the side of the road about to be killed. We are commanded to do likewise, every one of us.

The Church commands us to do the Spirtual Acts of Mercy at the abortion clinic…Council the Doubtful, Instruct the Ignorant and Admonish the Sinner.

If you substitute prayer instead of stopping to actually help the babies you are in danger of being like the crowd that mocked Jesus on the Cross by saying “If you are the son of God, then save yourself”. You may actually be saying “If you are the Son of God then go save those babies, I’m not going to lift a finger. If you want them saved - then go save them yourself.”

Hi, I had a question:

Where does the church “command us to do the Spiritual Acts of Mercy at the abortion clinic”?

Thanks

 

[DanteAlighieri]

Hi, I had a question:

Where does the church “command us to do the Spiritual Acts of Mercy at the abortion clinic”?

Thanks

I’d like to add that the lack of mention of prayer in the parable of the Good Samaritan should in no way be construed as a judgement on the inefficacy of prayer. Furthermore, the parable was told as demonstration of righteousness and how one is not righteous because of one’s race or one’s office, but by how one acts.

Prayer is action – it’s not a refusal to act.

Finally, Chris, your premise is inherently flawed in that you assume that “stopping to help those babies” is more effective than prayer. If it were, then the only appropriate action would be one that positively stops the abortion from occurring – e.g., sabotaging the abortion mill, assaulting or killing the abortionist, kidnapping the mother, etc. Given that Catholic morality does not allow for an “ends justify the means” rationale, these actions would be impermissible. There is no guarantee that the Spiritual Works of Mercy will be effective in changing the mind of the mother – hence, the flaw in your argument.

Peace,
Dante

 

[RachelsAlumni]

If you substitute prayer instead of stopping to actually help the babies you are in danger of being like the crowd that mocked Jesus on the Cross by saying “If you are the son of God, then save yourself”. You may actually be saying “If you are the Son of God then go save those babies, I’m not going to lift a finger. If you want them saved - then go save them yourself.”

well I guess that’s one way of looking at prayer.

Here’s another:

*Holy Mother of God and of the Church, our Lady of Guadalupe, you were chosen by the Father for the Son through the Holy Spirit. You are the Woman clothed with the sun who labors to give birth to Christ while Satan, the Red Dragon, waits to voraciously devour your child.

So too did Herod seek to destroy your Son, Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and massacred many innocent children in the process. So today does abortion killing many innocent unborn children and exploiting many mothers in its attack upon human life and upon the Church, the Body of Christ.

Mother of the Innocents, we praise God in you for His gifts to you of your Immaculate Conception, your freedom from actual sin; your fullness of grace, your Motherhood of God and the Church, your Perpetual Virginity and your Assumption in body and soul into heaven.

O Help of Christians, we beg you to protect all mothers of the unborn and the children within their wombs. We plead with you for your help to end the holocaust of abortion. Melt hearts so that life may be revered!

Holy Mother, we pray to your Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart for all mothers and all unborn children that they may have life here on earth and by the most Precious Blood shed by your Son that they may have eternal life with Him in heaven. We also pray to your Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart for all abortionists and all abortion supporters that they may be converted and accept your Son, Jesus Christ, as their Lord and Savior. Defend all of your children in the battle against Satan and all of the evil spirits in this present darkness.

We desire that the innocent unborn children who die without Baptism should be baptized and saved. We ask that you obtain this grace for them and repentance, reconciliation and pardon from God for their parents and their killers.

Let there be revealed, once more, in the history of the world the infinite power of merciful love. May it put an end to evil. May it transform consciences. May your Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart reveal for all the light of hope. May Christ the King reign over us, our families, cities, states, nations and the whole of humanity.

O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary, hear our pleas and accept this cry from our hearts!
Our Lady of Guadalupe, Protectress of the Unborn, Pray for us!* 2heartsnetwork.org/prolife.htm

*"A great prayer for life is urgently needed, a prayer which will rise up throughout the world. Through special initiatives and in daily prayer, may an impassioned plea rise to God, the Creator and lover of life, from every Christian community, from every group and association, from every family and from the heart of every believer.”

– Pope John Paul II, The Gospel of Life (Evangelium Vitae), n. 100.*

 

[gam197]

. originally posted by sonofgeorge
Now, my question is this, if the Catholic Church has so strict rules regarding abortion, why do they not actively and I mean actively participate in discouraging it and try to get the Planned Parenthood clinics to close down. Just saying abortion of any form is wrong is not be enough. Why discourage protesting and why disallow priests from actively supporting Pro-Life.

That is a question that has been asked many times over the years. I don’t know why but please don’t let it discourage you.

Just do what you feel you are being called to do by God. Pro-life involves many things including things like working at pregnancy centers, protesting and praying at clinics and also handing out literature at high schools and colleges. If all abortion clinics closed, pro-life work would still continue because there are so many needs in so many areas.

 

[beckers]

I’m new to this site and to the forums but I’ve got a question that I’d like to ask. First some background. I live in a medium sized community of about 70,000 and we have one Planned Parenthood Clinic. Since rejoining the Catholic Church I have been attending a small chapel that offers a Latin Mass every day. This chapel is not recognized as a church by the diocese and as a result we don’t have a parish priest just an assistant priest that is assigned to say Mass each day and administer the sacraments of Penance and Communion. No other sacraments can be received at this chapel. This is the only “church” that has had a Latin Mass in this town between 1962 and September 14, 2007. I have recently joined with some of the chapel’s Pro-Life parishioners and each Friday at 3PM we stand on a street corner, that we have received a permit for, with our signs and recite the rosary. Our current priest has joined us for the last two weeks and plans to continue. Our previous priest had been told by our bishop not to participate in the protests. Our current priest has mentioned that he thinks he will soon be told the same thing. Now, my question is this, if the Catholic Church has so strict rules regarding abortion, why do they not actively and I mean actively participate in discouraging it and try to get the Planned Parenthood clinics to close down. Just saying abortion of any form is wrong is not be enough. Why discourage protesting and why disallow priests from actively supporting Pro-Life. I read that Denver bishops are now protesting in some way the building of a new Planned Parenthood clinic near Denver. Why just now?

I would suggest caling or talk to the bishops office. It may be an issue with a priest from a non-recognized church during something in the diocese. You have to get promission from the bishop to work in the diocese.

I’ve never heard of a bishop not allowing priest to pray at PP. Here in Houston we had tons of priest and clergy show up for the 40 days for life campaign.

Check out this article and you can see a bishop praying at the PP.

Another Archbishop being a good shepard…

Archbishop joins abortion protest
Downtown clinic vigil attracts 250 people
courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071111/NEWS01/711110457

Some huddled in blankets, braced against the dawn chill. Others wore gloves and carried well-worn Bibles or wooden crucifixes.

Standing in their midst yesterday morning, Archbishop Joseph Kurtz clutched a rosary in his bare hands, joining about 250 people in a prayer vigil in front of a downtown Louisville abortion clinic.

It was Kurtz’s first appearance at the Louisville clinic, although he said he has attended similar protests in Pennsylvania and Tennessee, where he previously was the Roman Catholic bishop of Knoxville.

Kurtz, who was installed as the Archdiocese of Louisville’s leader in August, stood and knelt while facing the EMW Women’s Surgical Center at Second and Market streets for nearly 1½ hours. He spoke only when he gave a blessing that ended the gathering.

“There was a great sense, I believe, of civility and yet the courage to speak out on the convictions on behalf of the sanctity of life,” Kurtz said afterward.

Demonstrators regularly gather outside the clinic on Saturday mornings. With Kurtz in attendance, the crowd lined both sides of Market for nearly the entire block between First and Second streets.

"I think it’s very important that the church show leadership in its fight to end abortion and to protect the unborn, and it really is a sign of great encouragement when the archbishop comes," said the Rev. Peter West, a priest associate with Priests for Life of Staten Island, N.Y., who was at the vigil.

 

[turtle18]

Would you question Mary, John the Apostle, Mary Magdalene, the weeping woman of Jerusalem who stood silently, prayed for and watched Jesus as he was carrying his cross and was crucified?
Those who protest at abortion clinics are supporting the innocent, unborn children who are about to be massacred. This is very much a modern day crucifixtion, and you can either ignore it or you can be a silent witness to it for Christ and pray for those who are participating in it.

 

[D317]

Lots of threads going on here! My 2-cents are that chrisg93 is more right than wrong.

1. I do think that it is odd that the priest is/might be directed to discontinue protesting at PP. As previously suggested, research this with your diocese. You may not like the answer, but it will give you what you need to take the battle to the next level.
2. The Church ***does ***direct us to perform Spiritual Acts of Mercy without restriction to place & time (I’ll need to look up the reference, anyone recall it off-hand?). This would seem to include PP clinics/abortion mills.
3. It didn’t seem to me that anyone was arguing that prayer was not efficacious. Prayer is a powerful weapon, a gift, a grace, and always presupposes effort (CCC 2725). Christ tells us that we need prayer; but, we need action also. He calls us to (Matthew 5:16) “…let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father.”
4. Everyone must answer the call to DO SOMETHING as their situation in life permits. Not everyone has the fortitude to pray in front of a clinic–so they should pray in front of the Blessed Sacrament. Not everyone is satisfied with only praying the Rosary–so they should hit the streets. There is room for EVERYONE in this battle. This battle will not be won unless we demonstrate a Unity of Effort. If the Spirit moves you to a direct action campaign, Go For It! You will–and should be–supported by the entire Church Militant.

AMDG

 

[mrterryc]

Granted that a priest is bound by obedience to the Bishop. If the Bishop tells one of his priests that he doesn’t want him present in any way at any abortion protest, obedience is expected and required.

But what about us “ordinary lay folks”? Are we bound to the same standard of obedience? Can a Bishop say, for example, that we cannot carry signs with words (e.g., “I regret my abortion,” or “Free help available at [phone number]” or display any images of Our Lady of Guadalupe? This is happening right now in the Diocese of Fort Worth, TX.

Does obedience to the Bishop extend to matters of “strategy”? If so, could he tell us that we may not make the Sign of the Cross before meals in a public restaurant so as not to give offense?

I understand and fully accept our obligation to obey on matters of faith and morals as taught by the Church and, presumably, the Bishop. My question is whether there are any limits on what a Bishop may say and to which we must be obedient? If we say that there are no limits, isn’t this the same extremism that some fear when having uninformed discussions about papal infallibility, e.g., if the Pope says that men must wear red ties to Mass, that is an infallible statement?

Or, consider this: Both the Vatican and the USCCB have made it clear that it was and is not supportive of the War in Iraq. Yet no one would try to claim that what the Vatican or the Bishops have said is a matter of obedience for Catholics, i.e., Catholics must be “conscientious objectors” and “no more than non-combat participants” in this war. I think the same can be said of the “civil issue” of abortion in response to a Bishop’s instructions. Does he not exceed his authority as shepherd when he forbids civil protest of an issue that has religious dimensions? He is within his authority if he reminds us of Church teaching, such as the intrinsic evil of abortion, or “violence is not permitted in response to violence.” But forbidding the carrying of signs and images of Our Lady because it is a “sensitive” issue with our non-Catholic Christian brothers and sisters seems to me an extension of power beyond its proper boundaries.

Where am I wrong here?

 

[MaryJohnZ]

I’m new to this site and to the forums but I’ve got a question that I’d like to ask. First some background. I live in a medium sized community of about 70,000 and we have one Planned Parenthood Clinic. Since rejoining the Catholic Church I have been attending a small chapel that offers a Latin Mass every day. This chapel is not recognized as a church by the diocese and as a result we don’t have a parish priest just an assistant priest that is assigned to say Mass each day and administer the sacraments of Penance and Communion. No other sacraments can be received at this chapel. This is the only “church” that has had a Latin Mass in this town between 1962 and September 14, 2007. I have recently joined with some of the chapel’s Pro-Life parishioners and each Friday at 3PM we stand on a street corner, that we have received a permit for, with our signs and recite the rosary. Our current priest has joined us for the last two weeks and plans to continue. Our previous priest had been told by our bishop not to participate in the protests. Our current priest has mentioned that he thinks he will soon be told the same thing. Now, my question is this, if the Catholic Church has so strict rules regarding abortion, why do they not actively and I mean actively participate in discouraging it and try to get the Planned Parenthood clinics to close down. Just saying abortion of any form is wrong is not be enough. Why discourage protesting and why disallow priests from actively supporting Pro-Life. I read that Denver bishops are now protesting in some way the building of a new Planned Parenthood clinic near Denver. Why just now?

I went to a one day retreat with Father Enteneaur of Human Life International last spring. He spoke of his insights into the abortion battle. He is also an official exorcist and has encoutered evil in a real way. He said that you can recognize the presence of Satan when you see things becoming like fortresses…and most abortion clinics are very ,much like that. His insight into prayer in front of abortion clinics is that it is most effective when Priests and Bishops do participate. He likened the battle to Joshua’s in the old testament where it was the spiritual leaders who went in fron of others. He witnessed situations where clinics were closed down quickly because Bishops went to pray in front of them and when church leaders really LEAD they get crowds following the…
He said he was at one clinic praying and they watched 12 women go into the clinic. They prayed outside and waited all day but none of the women seem to come out. Later he found out from one of the women that they were all sitting in the waiting room, and they could feel the power of the prayers outside…one of them began to cry, then all of them. None of the women had an abortion but the clinic would not let them leave so the praying protesters would know how effective their prayers were.

So continue to pray…and pray for our spiritual leaders. WE NEED THEM and I don’t believe they are living up to their vocations by staying away from this battle. Everyone complains the church didm’t do enough against the Nazis…whether or not that is true, as I know there were heroic Catholics, yet someday they will probably say the same thing about this abortion situation.

MaryJohnZore