The changes to church interiors after Vatican 2

[MagdalenaRita]

That is inaccurate. The Baltimore Catechism was the standard. Officially, the cut-off date for “baby boomers” is 1965. Starting in 1970, wolves in sheep’s clothing began to dismantle proper catechesis in Catholic schools. Catholics, as a group, were far more faithful during the time period you mention.

Yes, a restoration is occurring.

I guess maybe I wasn’t clear. I agree people were more faithful during the 40’s and 50’s and time before that, but those that were born during that time and ended up growing up in the late 60’s and 70’s, such as myself born in 1959, did not receive catechesis.

My own personal opinion is that the parents of those in the late 60’s and 70’s and after assumed that the Catholic schools were teaching their children what they themselves had been taught, but sadly that was not the case.

Many of the wolves that came in during 70’s, many themselves were baby boomers.

I don’t like to see the blame put on all baby boomers, because many stayed true to the faith and many were extremely saddened and heart broken at the destruction. A good portion of what happened is due also in part to the subculture of the 60’s.

 

[CTBcin]

In the best of worlds, Stations are not part of the church where the Mass is celebrated. The focus is fully on the Mass.

I don’t know about you, but I’ve never been focused on the Stations of the Cross during Mass.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I lived in Germany for a number of years recently and it was very noticeable how many older churches had been drastically cleared out of all traditional decoration and sacramentals such as the Stations of the Cross.

In the best of worlds, Stations are not part of the church where the Mass is celebrated. The focus is fully on the Mass.

I don’t know about you, but I’ve never been focused on the Stations of the Cross during Mass.

These responses to @joyfulandactive puzzle me. The stations of the cross are there for us to focus on the death and resurrection of Christ. I would agree not to pray that particular devotion during Mass but it wouldn’t hurt to let them remind you that the Mass is the sacrifice of Christ. It is good to have them there to gaze upon while in prayer before or after Mass.

The stations of the cross are a beautiful devotion and an indulgence can be gained by praying them.

The Church grants a plenary indulgence to a member of the faithful who practices the pious exercise of the Way of the Cross.

In order to obtain this indulgence the exercise must be fulfilled before legitimately erected stations.

https://www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur210.htm

Why Pray the Stations of the Cross? 8 Reasons from Pope Francis - FOCUS Equip

The Stations of the Cross are a tradition in the Catholic Church going back to the fourth century when Christians went on pilgrimage to the Holy Land.

focusequip.org

 

[edwest]

I saw the wolves enter our neighborhoods in the mid to late 1960s. We were far more trusting then, a little too trusting. They took advantage of our trust. The Hippies and Anarchists wanted to tear down the family. So, to damage our minds, they encouraged illegal drug use, and they encouraged having sex with anybody. They began to open Head Shops (Head for dope-head) in our neighborhoods. They offered us corruption disguised as freedom. The sad results are with us today. Starting in 1970, our TVs became outlets for dysfunctional living and, as time passed, more and more perverse. The Body of Christ in the West was gradually poisoned. It pained me then and it pains me now.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

That is exactly what I remember also. I, also remember how saddened my parents were over what had happened to the Church at that time. We had a very beautiful parish we attended and it was completely stripped and filled with that 1970’s wooden decor.

 

[edwest]

And Vatican II did not even suggest, much less authorize that. In recent years, Church interiors have been and are being restored.

 

[CTBcin]

These responses to @joyfulandactive puzzle me. The stations of the cross are there for us to focus on the death and resurrection of Christ.

I think you’re misunderstanding me. I love the Stations. I was responding to Ostiarius, who argues against having the Stations of the Cross in the church and claims they distract from the Mass.

I am saying that I’m focused on the Mass during Mass and the Stations aren’t the “distractions” that he/she claims they are. I’m not saying anything negative about the Stations by that.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I think you’re misunderstanding me. I love the Stations. I was responding to Ostiarius, who argues against having the Stations of the Cross in the church and claims they distract from the Mass.

I am saying that I’m focused on the Mass during Mass and the Stations aren’t the “distractions” that he/she claims they are. I’m not saying anything negative about the Stations by that.

Oh, I’m sorry. I guess I did misunderstand what you were saying.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

And Vatican II did not even suggest, much less authorize that. In recent years, Church interiors have been and are being restored.

Yes, I met someone recently who does just that for his profession and he said he was extremely busy and had a lot of work.

We also have a young priest in our area who, wherever he gets transferred tries to do some type of restoration of beauty to the parishes he is sent.

 

[otjm]

Ah, here we go again. Wreckovation. Wolves entering neighborhoods. Experts lacking pastoral experience. It is now 2019 and we are fighting battles of 1970, and many of the warriors have absolutely no experience of the 1940’s and 1950’s.

edwest and I do, and we disagree more often that we agree.

I remember the anger my father had, when serving as an usher in the 1950’s, as he was in the back of church and saw those who came as late as possible and left as the first individual received Communion. Who were these folks? People who operated under the attitude of “They did their obligation”, a word that I despise - and yet it was a constant attitude among all too many Catholics, as it was emphasized to a great degree.

In the 1950’s a sociologist did a physical survey of what was going on during Mass in the pews. Depending on the parish, less than half to significantly less than half had a missal (they were expensive). Of the rest, there was a large number saying the Rosary; others were reading from a pamphlet containing some novena or some series of private prayers. Others stared off into space. and some, usually in the back which seems o consist of males, might be reading the bulletin or a religious paper.

Did we have a whip-snap when the OF was promulgated? Yep. Could we have found a better way to get people involved with the Mass? That can be argued until the Second Coming, but we have what we have.

What we also have is the attitude among some that “what we did was what was best” without any honest look at what Christ wanted us to have, obtain, understand and participate in, in the Mass.

Quick question: What passage in the Gospels gives us the Mass?

If you want to go read it, it is Luke 24: 13-31. The Mass in its essence is laid out there. No Latin (it was in Aramaic), no incense, no fiddleback vestments, no polyphonic chant - or Gregorian, for that matter.

And before those who love the sound of “antequarian” rolling off their tongue respond, there were 2,147 bishops of the world voting “yes” to the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy and 4 voting “no”.

Yes, the Progressives ruled the roost and with an over-reactive response. Perhaps it was in part fueled by the perception, not far off the mark, that the hoi polloi had centuries before been left in the dusty road while the effete aficionados had taken over with a vengeance.
(continued)

 

[otjm]

(continued)
My last position as an “altar boy” was as Master of Ceremonies at a Solemn High Mass in the early 1960’s, and I can appreciate as much as anyone the pomp and circumstance of that form.

On the other hand, there are those who think that if we do not have all the pomp and circumstance, we somehow betray our faith, all the while forgetting that Someone was born in a romm full of the manure of barnyard animals and was laid in their feeding trough. Our worship is not either/or; it needs to be both/and - both complex (Palestrina) and simple (songs based, oh, say on Scripture passages). There is a point for grand cathedrals and a point for a sere parish church.

Lest I belabor the point: there was much in need of correction, and the correction was so long overdue that the reaction was swift and vicious. Had it been done centureis before, or even decades before and brought in gradually, we would not have the angst some still harbor. But it is what it is.

And unlike some herein, it was centuries long overdue.