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James_Tyler
Guest
When we are talking about “God does not change”, aren’t we talking about the character of God? That is the way it was taught to me. He is Truth and Justice forever and ever.
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Aloysium
Guest
The Triune Godhead is Love, is Beauty, Life eternal, the infinitely compassionate Cause of all creation.
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Tomdstone
Guest
Scripture tells us that God changes His mind:
Exodus 32:14
So the LORD changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.
Jeremiah 26:19
“Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah put him to death? Did he not fear the LORD and entreat the favor of the LORD, and the LORD changed His mind about the misfortune which He had pronounced against them? But we are committing a great evil against ourselves.”
Amos 7:3
The LORD changed His mind about this. “It shall not be,” said the LORD.
Amos 7:6
The LORD changed His mind about this. “This too shall not be,” said the Lord GOD.
Jeremiah 26:13
"Now therefore amend your ways and your deeds and obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will change His mind about the misfortune which He has pronounced against you.
…
Some translations use the term relented instead of changed His mind. But relented still indicates a change.
…
As far as change of character, the Bible tells us that God gets angry from time to time.
Deuteronomy 9:8
"Even at Horeb you provoked the LORD to wrath, and the LORD was so angry with you that He would have destroyed you.
Exodus 15:7
"And in the greatness of Your excellence You overthrow those who rise up against You; You send forth Your burning anger, and it consumes them as chaff.
Exodus 32:10-11
“Now then let Me alone, that My anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them; and I will make of you a great nation.” Then Moses entreated the LORD his God, and said, "O LORD, why does Your anger burn against Your people whom You have brought out from the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand?
Numbers 11:1-2
Now the people became like those who complain of adversity in the hearing of the LORD; and when the LORD heard it, His anger was kindled, and the fire of the LORD burned among them and consumed some of the outskirts of the camp. The people therefore cried out to Moses, and Moses prayed to the LORD and the fire died out.
Job 4:9
“By the breath of God they perish, And by the blast of His anger they come to an end.”
Exodus 32:14
So the LORD changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.
Jeremiah 26:19
“Did Hezekiah king of Judah and all Judah put him to death? Did he not fear the LORD and entreat the favor of the LORD, and the LORD changed His mind about the misfortune which He had pronounced against them? But we are committing a great evil against ourselves.”
Amos 7:3
The LORD changed His mind about this. “It shall not be,” said the LORD.
Amos 7:6
The LORD changed His mind about this. “This too shall not be,” said the Lord GOD.
Jeremiah 26:13
"Now therefore amend your ways and your deeds and obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will change His mind about the misfortune which He has pronounced against you.
…
Some translations use the term relented instead of changed His mind. But relented still indicates a change.
…
As far as change of character, the Bible tells us that God gets angry from time to time.
Deuteronomy 9:8
"Even at Horeb you provoked the LORD to wrath, and the LORD was so angry with you that He would have destroyed you.
Exodus 15:7
"And in the greatness of Your excellence You overthrow those who rise up against You; You send forth Your burning anger, and it consumes them as chaff.
Exodus 32:10-11
“Now then let Me alone, that My anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them; and I will make of you a great nation.” Then Moses entreated the LORD his God, and said, "O LORD, why does Your anger burn against Your people whom You have brought out from the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand?
Numbers 11:1-2
Now the people became like those who complain of adversity in the hearing of the LORD; and when the LORD heard it, His anger was kindled, and the fire of the LORD burned among them and consumed some of the outskirts of the camp. The people therefore cried out to Moses, and Moses prayed to the LORD and the fire died out.
Job 4:9
“By the breath of God they perish, And by the blast of His anger they come to an end.”
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fisherman_carl
Guest
"God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind.“
Num 23:19
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fisherman_carl
Guest
The doctrine of immutability states that God does not change.
Source catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=34109
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fisherman_carl
Guest
Here is something else that may be worth reading on the subject.
socrates58.blogspot.ca/2009/01/catholic-dogmas-of-gods-immutability.html?m=1
“For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.”
(Mal 3:6)
socrates58.blogspot.ca/2009/01/catholic-dogmas-of-gods-immutability.html?m=1
“For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.”
(Mal 3:6)
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Tomdstone
Guest
Scripture, however, tells us that God did change his mind as seen in the many passages above.
Further,
If Jesus knew what was going to happen, why did He ask God to change the situation and take the cup away?
“Father, if you are willing, please take this cup of suffering away from me.”
Luke 22:42.
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fisherman_carl
Guest
So basically you have a contradiction then if you believe that because of the passages I quoted which says God does not change his mind. In which case in order to resolve the contradiction you have to either treat some of the passages as non-literal or as metaphorical descriptions of God. Which view of God fits better with his infinite characteristics like all powerful, all knowing, etc. Thus, one has to interpret the passages in light of other known truths about God’s nature.
Jesus has a human nature as well as a divine nature.
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Tomdstone
Guest
I can’t do anything about that.
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Tomdstone
Guest
What does tht have to do with Jesus asking God to change the situation?
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fisherman_carl
Guest
Lol.
God knows what is going to happen. So he doesn’t change his mind. However, he sometimes acted a certain way in order to teach us something. For instance, he warns the people they will be punished, but then he relents once they have repented. God knew that was going to happen. But, He wanted them to be warned so that they could repent. God’s nature is always love towards us even if he is punishing us. Just as a loving father who punishes to correct for the good of the child. Another example is Abraham sacrificing his son. God never intended for him to be sacrificed. However he acted as if he did in Abraham’s eyes in order to teach Abraham something, and all of Israel, in a time where human sacrifice was not uncommon.
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Vico
Guest
The Fourth Lateran Council and the Vatican Council teach that God is immutable (incommutabilis) Denzinger 428, 1782:
428 Firmly we believe and we confess simply that the true God is one alone, eternal, immense, and unchangeable, incomprehensible, omnipotent and ineffable, Father and Son and Holy Spirit: indeed three Persons but one essence, substance, or nature entirely simple. The Father from no one, the Son from the Father only, and the Holy Spirit equally from both; without beginning, always, and without end; the Father generating, the Son being born, and the Holy Spirit proceeding; consubstantial and coequal and omnipotent and coeternal; one beginning of all, creator of all visible and invisible things, of the spiritual and of the corporal; who by His own omnipotent power at once from the beginning of time created each creature from nothing, spiritual, and corporal, namely, angelic and mundane, and finally the human, constituted as it were, alike of the spirit and the body. For the devil and other demons were created by God good in nature, but they themselves through themselves have become wicked. But man sinned at the suggestion of the devil. This Holy Trinity according to common essence undivided, and according to personal properties distinct, granted the doctrine of salvation to the human race, first through Moses and the holy prophets and his other servants according to the most methodical disposition of the time.
Chap. 1. God, Creator of All Things
1782 [The one, living, and true God and His distinction from all things.] * The holy, Catholic, Apostolic, Roman Church believes and confesses that there is one, true, living God, Creator and Lord of heaven and earth, omnipotent, eternal, immense, incomprehensible, infinite in intellect and will, and in every perfection; who, although He is one, singular, altogether simple and unchangeable spiritual substance, must be proclaimed distinct in reality and essence from the world; most blessed in Himself and of Himself, and ineffably most high above all things which are or can be conceived outside Himself [can. 1-4].
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Tomdstone
Guest
It says that God is " unchangeable spiritual substance". I don’t see how that necessarily implies that God cannot change His mind, as the Bible tells us that He did.
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Vico
Guest
God is also eternal and omniscient so He cannot learn something new.
Numbers 23:19
God is not a human being who speaks falsely,
nor a mortal, who feels regret.
Is God one to speak and not act,
to decree and not bring it to pass?
James 1:17
all good giving and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no alteration or shadow caused by change.
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puzzledtoo
Guest
“he regretted that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was grieved.”
Genesis 6:6
Sounds like change to me. Everything changes. If there is a god such as in the bible then it sure seems like that deity changes also. After all the bible is supposed to be inspired by god. We should all have at least a little faith in our ability to reason.
Genesis 6:6
Sounds like change to me. Everything changes. If there is a god such as in the bible then it sure seems like that deity changes also. After all the bible is supposed to be inspired by god. We should all have at least a little faith in our ability to reason.
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kdbueno
Guest
God does not change is a pre-supposition that He cannot deny His divinity.
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Aloysium
Guest
It goes something like this: God is changeless in eternity, but responsive to His creation in time.
All is known by Him in His eternal Now, where He remains unchanged, “feeling regret” in the instance described above, for having created the world before the flood.
Take the situation of Cain as another example of His omniscience, our free-will and His will that we might be saved: God warns Cain, to make him aware of sin. Cain chooses to ignore God and kills Abel. God tries to help Cain, who could have chosen otherwise, knowing that Cain will sin.
It is all living present for God, who is thereby with us in every moment guiding us to be loving persons.
All is known by Him in His eternal Now, where He remains unchanged, “feeling regret” in the instance described above, for having created the world before the flood.
Take the situation of Cain as another example of His omniscience, our free-will and His will that we might be saved: God warns Cain, to make him aware of sin. Cain chooses to ignore God and kills Abel. God tries to help Cain, who could have chosen otherwise, knowing that Cain will sin.
It is all living present for God, who is thereby with us in every moment guiding us to be loving persons.
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Vico
Guest
God is not a thing but uncreated eternal being.
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puzzledtoo
Guest
I feel like a dog chasing its tail. Folks have submitted quotes from the bible that say god changes and quotes that say god is changeless. People say there are contradictions in the bible and others say no contradictions exist.I have to believe if there is a god that that being meant for things to be easy but since the beginning we have tried our best to make things as complicated as possible. Even the “inspired word of god” from the bible or any other sacred text in any other religion or belief seem to only be what that particular author or authors experienced and believed at that time.
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susanlo
Guest
There is a difference between God changing His immediate plans about a situation, and God changing His nature and who He is and what He is about.
If I change my weekend plans, then I have made a change in my life. However I am still the same person, with the same DNA and with the same characteristics and basic life circumstances.
I get angry sometimes. This doesn’t change who I am. This is part of who I am.
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