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peary1
Guest
There is nothing correct, beautiftul or superlative in the Koran, as far as I can tell, and the book means nothing to me.
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seraphime2008
Guest
well I just learn how to laugh out loud because of your “mentality” dictated by ur holy book! it’s really funny!!
ok, for the sake of discussion, please quote the story of christmas from the Koran, and we’ll see how superlative it is compared to the bible! Remember you just bragged about how Koran having the detail about Christmas, so I have to asked you which detail? Then you said that Koran was not a book of history! So what kind of detail needed which in the first place you bragged? All I can see is the detail about the palm tree and the east of the west which is a ridiculous detail compared to what the bible said.I’m sorry planten, but you’re keeping your self in a state of delusion.
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planten
Guest
Seraphime, You asked for it. So I post the verses. You bring the like of them from your bibleNT gospels, the like of those verses please. I feel you will not be able to bring any such thing. That will prove that bible lacks in that subject of the birth of Jesus: It is Christmas time. So Merry X-mas. Enjoy.well I just learn how to laugh out loud because of your “mentality” dictated by ur holy book! it’s really funny!!
I’m sorry planten, but you’re keeping your self in a state of delusion.
** [19:16] وَاذْكُرْ فِىْ الْـكِتٰبِ مَرْيَمَۘ اِذِ انتَبَذَتْ مِنْ اَهْلِهَا مَكَانًا شَرْقِيًّ**اۙ
[19:16] And relate the story of Mary as mentioned in the Book. When she withdrew from her people to a place to the east, (away fromher home) ۔
[19:17] فَاتَّخَذَتْ مِنْ دُوْنِهِمْ حِجَابًا فَاَرْسَلْنَاۤ اِلَيْهَا رُوْحَنَا فَتَمَثَّلَ لَهَا بَشَرًا سَوِيًّا
[19:17] And screened herself off from them, then We sent Our angel to her, and he appeared to her in the form of a perfect man .
[19:18] قَالَتْ اِنِّىْۤ اَعُوْذُ بِالرَّحْمٰنِ مِنْكَ اِنْ كُنْتَ تَقِيًّا
[19:18] She said, ‘I seek refuge with the Gracious God from thee if indeed thou dost fear Him.’ (That means she was very pious that she could not allow the company of an unknown man, even in a dream.)
[19:19] قَالَ اِنَّمَاۤ اَنَا رَسُوْلُ رَبِّكِۖ لِاَهَبَ لَـكِ غُلٰمًا زَكِيًّا
[19:19] He replied, ‘I am only a Messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a righteous son.’ (That is the good news of an illustrous grown up young man.)
[19:20] قَالَتْ اَنّٰى يَكُوْنُ لِىْ غُلٰمٌ وَّلَمْ يَمْسَسْنِىْ بَشَرٌ وَّلَمْ اَكُ بَغِيًّا
[19:20] She said, ‘How can I have a son when no man has touched me, neither have I been unchaste? (Very true. She was in the temple serving God. She was not married nor any spoiled lady.) ’
[19:21] قَالَ كَذٰلِكِۚ قَالَ رَبُّكِ هُوَ عَلَىَّ هَيِّنٌۚ وَّلِنَجْعَلَهٗۤ اٰيَةً لِّلنَّاسِ وَرَحْمَةً مِّنَّاۚ وَكَانَ اَمْرًا مَّقْضِيًّا
[19:21] He replied, ‘Thus it is.’ But says thy Lord, ‘It is easy for Me; and We shall do so that We may make him a Sign unto men, and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing decreed.’ (that is a clear indication that Jesus, the son being offered to Mary will be very famous, will be a sign of God to mankind. That means he will not be forgotten from the minds of people and he will be remembered through all ages by the mankind, with such festivals as Christmas and due to a world wide Calendar in his name.)
[19:22] فَحَمَلَتْهُ فَانتَبَذَتْ بِهٖ مَكَانًا قَصِيًّا
[19:22] So she conceived him, and withdrew with him to a remote place (So she concieved him, in due course of time, after many years, as it was ordained by God and as it ws told to her afore time.) (It further says that after concieving, she left the place and was travelling. That means Jesus migrated and travelled in the womb of his mother.).
[19:23] فَاَجَآءَهَا الْمَخَاضُ اِلٰى جِذْعِ النَّخْلَةِۚ قَالَتْ يٰلَيْتَنِىْ مِتُّ قَبْلَ هٰذَا وَكُنْتُ نَسْيًا مَّنْسِيًّا[19:23] And the pains of childbirth drove her unto the trunk of a palm-tree. She said, ‘O! would that I had died before this and had become a thing quite forgotten!’ ( It is all quite simple. The time and place of delivery was not very suitable and comfortable for Mary… as any expectant mother would have wished…)۔
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planten
Guest
The verses need further explanations. So I present the meaning of the verses of the Quran below:
**[19:16] وَاذْكُرْ فِىْ الْـكِتٰبِ مَرْيَمَۘ اِذِ انتَبَذَتْ مِنْ اَهْلِهَا مَكَانًا شَرْقِيًّاۙ **
[19:16] And relate the story of Mary as mentioned in the Book. When she withdrew from her people to a place to the east,
(away from her home. The temple of Zakariyah was very famous and was located to the east of the birth place of Mary) ۔
[19:17] فَاتَّخَذَتْ مِنْ دُوْنِهِمْ حِجَابًا فَاَرْسَلْنَاۤ اِلَيْهَا رُوْحَنَا فَتَمَثَّلَ لَهَا بَشَرًا سَوِيًّا [19:17] And screened herself off from them, then We sent Our angel to her, and he appeared to her in the form of a perfect man .
(Screened means she was left in the temple for good and never had the chance / facility to visit or to be visited by her parents. Mary was almost cut off from the parents.
God sent an angel to Mary and the angel appeared to Mary in the form of a perfectly good handsome person. Please remember that it is all in vision, not in real life. It was a true dream. )
[19:18] قَالَتْ اِنِّىْۤ اَعُوْذُ بِالرَّحْمٰنِ مِنْكَ اِنْ كُنْتَ تَقِيًّا
[19:18] She said, ‘I seek refuge with the Gracious God from thee if indeed thou dost fear Him.’
(That means she was very pious that she could not allow the company of an unknown man, even in a dream. She sought refuge with God from that person, not knowing that it was an angel from God.
Note that there is a dialogue between Mary and the angel, Spirit from God, i.e. Holy Spirit.)
[19:19] قَالَ اِنَّمَاۤ اَنَا رَسُوْلُ رَبِّكِۖ لِاَهَبَ لَـكِ غُلٰمًا زَكِيًّا
[19:19] He replied, ‘I am only a Messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a righteous son.’
( The angel spoke and gave the good news. That is the good news of an illustrous grown up young man. Some people believe that it was a news of a baby boy. No. It was a news of a great son who would live to grow up to a full man and be endowed with special powers.)
[19:20] قَالَتْ اَنّٰى يَكُوْنُ لِىْ غُلٰمٌ وَّلَمْ يَمْسَسْنِىْ بَشَرٌ وَّلَمْ اَكُ بَغِيًّا
[19:20] She said, ‘How can I have a son when no man has touched me, neither have I been unchaste?
(Very true. She was a pious person in the temple serving God. She was not married nor any spoiled lady. Naturally. Mary was old enough to understand the way the children are born. That is through coming in contact with a man. She told the angel that she had never seen a man legally and she was not any misbehaving person.) ’
[19:21] قَالَ كَذٰلِكِۚ قَالَ رَبُّكِ هُوَ عَلَىَّ هَيِّنٌۚ وَّلِنَجْعَلَهٗۤ اٰيَةً لِّلنَّاسِ وَرَحْمَةً مِّنَّاۚ وَكَانَ اَمْرًا مَّقْضِيًّا
[19:21] He replied, ‘Thus it is.’ But says thy Lord, ‘It is easy for Me; and We shall do so that We may make him a Sign unto men, and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing decreed.’
(that is a clear indication that Jesus, the son being offered to Mary will be very famous, will be a sign of God to mankind (Ayat ullah li an Naas). That means he will not be forgotten from the minds of people and he will be remembered through all ages by the mankind, with such festivals as Christmas and due to a world wide Calendar in his name… which was to come in far future time…
And he will be a Mercy for the mankind from God.
)
[19:22] فَحَمَلَتْهُ فَانتَبَذَتْ بِهٖ مَكَانًا قَصِيًّا
[19:22] So she conceived him, and withdrew with him to a remote place
[19:23] And the pains of childbirth drove her unto the trunk of a palm-tree. She said, ‘O! would that I had died before this and had become a thing quite forgotten!’
( It is all quite simple. The time and place of delivery was not very suitable and comfortable for Mary… as any expectant mother would have wished… Some Muslims believe that she was crying due to shame as to how she would prove the genuine … legitimate … birth of the son. That was not the case.
She was crying naturally due to the severe pains (pangs) of delivery which were unbearable. During that time, her husband (Joseph) was with her. )۔
**[19:16] وَاذْكُرْ فِىْ الْـكِتٰبِ مَرْيَمَۘ اِذِ انتَبَذَتْ مِنْ اَهْلِهَا مَكَانًا شَرْقِيًّاۙ **
[19:16] And relate the story of Mary as mentioned in the Book. When she withdrew from her people to a place to the east,
(away from her home. The temple of Zakariyah was very famous and was located to the east of the birth place of Mary) ۔
[19:17] فَاتَّخَذَتْ مِنْ دُوْنِهِمْ حِجَابًا فَاَرْسَلْنَاۤ اِلَيْهَا رُوْحَنَا فَتَمَثَّلَ لَهَا بَشَرًا سَوِيًّا [19:17] And screened herself off from them, then We sent Our angel to her, and he appeared to her in the form of a perfect man .
(Screened means she was left in the temple for good and never had the chance / facility to visit or to be visited by her parents. Mary was almost cut off from the parents.
God sent an angel to Mary and the angel appeared to Mary in the form of a perfectly good handsome person. Please remember that it is all in vision, not in real life. It was a true dream. )
[19:18] قَالَتْ اِنِّىْۤ اَعُوْذُ بِالرَّحْمٰنِ مِنْكَ اِنْ كُنْتَ تَقِيًّا
[19:18] She said, ‘I seek refuge with the Gracious God from thee if indeed thou dost fear Him.’
(That means she was very pious that she could not allow the company of an unknown man, even in a dream. She sought refuge with God from that person, not knowing that it was an angel from God.
Note that there is a dialogue between Mary and the angel, Spirit from God, i.e. Holy Spirit.)
[19:19] قَالَ اِنَّمَاۤ اَنَا رَسُوْلُ رَبِّكِۖ لِاَهَبَ لَـكِ غُلٰمًا زَكِيًّا
[19:19] He replied, ‘I am only a Messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a righteous son.’
( The angel spoke and gave the good news. That is the good news of an illustrous grown up young man. Some people believe that it was a news of a baby boy. No. It was a news of a great son who would live to grow up to a full man and be endowed with special powers.)
[19:20] قَالَتْ اَنّٰى يَكُوْنُ لِىْ غُلٰمٌ وَّلَمْ يَمْسَسْنِىْ بَشَرٌ وَّلَمْ اَكُ بَغِيًّا
[19:20] She said, ‘How can I have a son when no man has touched me, neither have I been unchaste?
(Very true. She was a pious person in the temple serving God. She was not married nor any spoiled lady. Naturally. Mary was old enough to understand the way the children are born. That is through coming in contact with a man. She told the angel that she had never seen a man legally and she was not any misbehaving person.) ’
[19:21] قَالَ كَذٰلِكِۚ قَالَ رَبُّكِ هُوَ عَلَىَّ هَيِّنٌۚ وَّلِنَجْعَلَهٗۤ اٰيَةً لِّلنَّاسِ وَرَحْمَةً مِّنَّاۚ وَكَانَ اَمْرًا مَّقْضِيًّا
[19:21] He replied, ‘Thus it is.’ But says thy Lord, ‘It is easy for Me; and We shall do so that We may make him a Sign unto men, and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing decreed.’
(that is a clear indication that Jesus, the son being offered to Mary will be very famous, will be a sign of God to mankind (Ayat ullah li an Naas). That means he will not be forgotten from the minds of people and he will be remembered through all ages by the mankind, with such festivals as Christmas and due to a world wide Calendar in his name… which was to come in far future time…
And he will be a Mercy for the mankind from God.
)
[19:22] فَحَمَلَتْهُ فَانتَبَذَتْ بِهٖ مَكَانًا قَصِيًّا
[19:22] So she conceived him, and withdrew with him to a remote place
(So she concieved him, in due course of time, after some years, as it was ordained by God and as it was told to her afore time. It further says that after concieving, she left the place and was travelling towards a far away place. That means Jesus migrated (Hijrah) and travelled in the womb of his mother Mary. Hijrah is a Sunnah of the prophets. Jesus did it before birth.).
[19:23] فَاَجَآءَهَا الْمَخَاضُ اِلٰى جِذْعِ النَّخْلَةِۚ قَالَتْ يٰلَيْتَنِىْ مِتُّ قَبْلَ هٰذَا وَكُنْتُ نَسْيًا مَّنْسِيًّا[19:23] And the pains of childbirth drove her unto the trunk of a palm-tree. She said, ‘O! would that I had died before this and had become a thing quite forgotten!’
( It is all quite simple. The time and place of delivery was not very suitable and comfortable for Mary… as any expectant mother would have wished… Some Muslims believe that she was crying due to shame as to how she would prove the genuine … legitimate … birth of the son. That was not the case.
She was crying naturally due to the severe pains (pangs) of delivery which were unbearable. During that time, her husband (Joseph) was with her. )۔
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seraphime2008
Guest
Planten,
thanks for your long explanation and quoted verses from the Koran about the story of Christmas. To be honest, I myself don’t find it really compelling and would never think of it as superlative to the Bible…
. Your explanation about the east and the palm tree still makes me feel that Koran was not telling the important of many messages of Christmas that was in the bible, w though you of course think differently.
I also find your explanation that holding the title of the “Sign of men” and “a mercy from Us” for Jesus is only about having his birth celebrated all over the world as in Chrsitmas and having the calendar after His birth…wow that is very-very shallow observation to me…ha…ha… Anyway you should admit that He indeed is a sign of mercy from God! Why can’t you see that and take the deep meaning of it!
Anyway, it’s Christmas! I can always say “merry Christmas” to you too Planten. He came to all human being. Let him knock your heart, let Him born into your heart too that He can show you the Lord’s mercy bestow upon you too!
God bless you Planten!
thanks for your long explanation and quoted verses from the Koran about the story of Christmas. To be honest, I myself don’t find it really compelling and would never think of it as superlative to the Bible…
. Your explanation about the east and the palm tree still makes me feel that Koran was not telling the important of many messages of Christmas that was in the bible, w though you of course think differently.I also find your explanation that holding the title of the “Sign of men” and “a mercy from Us” for Jesus is only about having his birth celebrated all over the world as in Chrsitmas and having the calendar after His birth…wow that is very-very shallow observation to me…ha…ha…
Anyway you should admit that He indeed is a sign of mercy from God! Why can’t you see that and take the deep meaning of it!Anyway, it’s Christmas! I can always say “merry Christmas” to you too Planten. He came to all human being. Let him knock your heart, let Him born into your heart too that He can show you the Lord’s mercy bestow upon you too!
God bless you Planten!
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Kantaram88
Guest
Planten, from islamic point of view, it may be a good detail, but from Christian point of view, when I look at it, I dont find any detail.
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Jay53
Guest
OK, this just drives me nuts, because it has been corrected over and over and over. :hypno:
The Holy Spirit IS NOT and HAS NEVER BEEN the ANGEL GABRIEL!!!
I understand that Islamic theology calls the Angel Gabriel the Holy Spirit, but this is not and has never been Christian theology. (Something else Muhammad got wrong.
)(And I am pointing this out here because Planten’s extra comments after the Quranic verses appear to be linking the two.)
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