The contemplative cat

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MWin said:
Yes, they have a different awareness than us, but they do have moral awareness. They know right from wrong. A cat can feel ashamed when it has behaved badly. They do feel guilt. Recent research shows that little monkeys have a concept of fair treatment. If a monkey gets a peanut while the other monkeys get a juicy grape, it will throw away the peanut (although it loves peanuts) because it thinks that it has been unjustly treated.

If animals have a soul, even a “little” one, it means that they have recourse to an immortal soul. In Christian theology, the soul is immortal, per definition. To solve this dilemma, most theologians believe that animals merely have the “breath of life,” (nephesh in Hebrew), but not an immortal soul in the same sense as man’s. Thus, they reject the notion that animals have a soul proper. But this is evidently wrong, because animals give expression to the same characteristics that are present in humanity. They have a “little” moral consciousness, a “little” self-awareness, etc. We have no other choice than to realize that animals have an immortal soul, and that we do commit crimes against other beings on earth. So we are all murderers, although there is no way around this condition of life. This is the stain of Cain that we cannot wash out. So we have to stop pretending that we are good. It is hypocrisy. Not even the saints are good. They are just slightly less stained by sin.

M. Winther
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Again, you are reading into animal behavior what a human would feel in like circumstances. They don’t feel guilt for anything–they have no moral sense of right and wrong. They only know what gets them what they want and what doesn’t. They know that they are not to do certain things because they get disciplined if they do something a human doesn’t want them to do, but they don’t feel any guilt about it. And they can be jealous, in the simple sense of the word, but not in the moral sense. They simply want what the other one has. My cats have demonstrated these traits. Understanding that they have no bad intentions and no good intentions helps us deal with their behavior. If we think they know right from wrong we tend to punish them instead of correct them. Punishing them for their “bad” behavior doesn’t change the animal as we’d like but only makes them fearful of us. I have often had to remind my husband that one of our cats doesn’t spray because he’s trying to get back at us but for cat reasons, not human reasons. By applying human intentions onto animals we do them a disservice which can lead to abuse of the animal and frustration for the human being.
 
Della, dog- and cat owners repeatedly say that they can tell from the animal’s bodily and facial expression that they have done something that they think is wrong, regardless of the owner’s view on the matter. I observed this in my cat as well. They have a moral consciousness independent of man.

"…Do baboons have a sense of right and wrong? Do cats and dogs have their feelings hurt? Animal behavior expert Jonathan Balcombe makes the case that animals, once viewed only as mindless automatons, actually have rich sensory experiences and emotional complexity. Drawing on new research, observational studies, and personal anecdotes to reveal the full spectrum of animal experience, Balcombe paints a new picture of the inner lives of animals that diverges from the “fight or die” image often presented in the popular media. He challenges traditional views of animals and makes the case for why the human-animal relationship needs a complete overhaul.

Did you know that dogs recognize unfairness and that rats practice random acts of kindness? Did you know that chimpanzees can trounce humans in short-term memory games? Or that fishes distinguish good guys from cheaters, and that birds are susceptible to mood swings such as depression and optimism? With vivid stories and entertaining anecdotes, Balcombe gives the human pedestal a strong shake while opening the door into the inner lives of the animals themselves."
amazon.com/Second-Nature-Inner-Animals-Macsci/dp/0230107818/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

M. Winther
 
Pet owners feelings about their pets is not evidence for anything, I’m afraid. I love my cats dearly but I know they don’t feel the same kind of love for me that I do for them because they are not capable of it. I am grateful for what they are capable of giving me, but I don’t expect what they cannot give–it’d be putting a burden on them that they cannot bear if I did otherwise. One of my cats all but ignores me. Is it because she loves me less than the one that needs to sit in my lap every evening? Not at all. She simply doesn’t want to sit with me like the other one does. That’s all there is to it. Knowing that she prefers to be aloof keeps me from expecting what she cannot give so I don’t treat her with any less regard than the other one. Indeed, I know the one who loves to sit with me does so because it pleases him not because it pleases me. Do I love him any less for that? No. Because it is how he is and I just accept it. I love them as they are not for what I want/expect from them knowing they are only animals who can only do what they know/desire to do as animals.

No matter how intelligent any animal might be it is not a moral agent. It cannot decide between right and wrong. It can only know what benefits it or its young or act according to the normal way it’s species would act. It does not/cannot not concern itself with the ultimate fate of their species nor commit sins. They simply are not capable of these things.

If a dog rescues a child it does so because of pack instincts that tell it to guard its pack’s offspring. The human child is part of its pack because it is owned by a human being. It is not thinking, “Oh gee, little Jimmy is in trouble, I love him so I will save him.” They just don’t think that way. Nor do they plot to commit sins. If they plot it’s to take advantage for themselves or their family group. If we give them virtues they don’t have we also must allow they sin. They have/do neither. Period.
 
Della, your view of animals is obsolete. Researchers, like Frans de Waal, say that we must reform our view of animals. Animals have feelings of empathy, for instance. When a chimpanzee is attacked and is screaming, other chimpanzees will calm the animal down, comfort it and hug it.

You misinterpret the cats. The cat who prefers not to sit with you probably avoids you since you spend time with the other cats. Had that cat lived alone with you, it would probably sit in your lap. Some animals are introverted while some are extraverted. This corresponds exactly to human nature. Some cats like other’s company all the time, while certain cats prefer to be alone. It doesn’t mean that it doesn’t love you. In fact, if I am attracted to a woman, and I find her with another man, I would shun her, exactly like your cat does. So these animals are much more complex than you think. There are also sociological factors to consider. It is the question of which cat has the right to sit with you, and which of the cats that like each other’s company, etc.
/Mats
 
I see nothing in your last post that contradicts anything I wrote. Animals are not capable of sin, which is why they don’t need the sacraments of the Church–that is the relevant point here.

In their innocence they worship God just by being what he created them to be. They don’t need us to elevate them or make them into our image, poor things. We’ve done enough damage to them as it is without imposing and projecting our sensibilities and expectations onto them.

The scientists who are so hot and heavy to prove that animals are just like us are trying to prove that evolution is an ongoing process from lower to higher forms–from lower to higher intelligence. Bosh. I have no illusions about what animals are and what they ought to be. They need not be what we are to please God nor do they need to become something “better” in order to live full and contented lives. That’s all that really matters.
 
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